276 responses so far ↓

• Migdalia // Sep 11, 2003 at 9:02 am

  This is just one more example of another ‘frivolous suit’.

  When we join this company and we become sales directors, we read and sign agreements that state that our cars and positions are dependent on production and team building. Period. End of story.

  Some women don’t get it, and our law system allows for these lawsuits to take place.

  That is why we are raising a generation of children that don’t take responsibility for their actions. They always blame someone for their misfortunes. If you get sick, and stop making payments on your own automobile, does GM allows you to keep it without making payments until you recover? Others are let go from their ‘true jobs’ for similar reasons.

  We DO NOT work for Mary Kay Inc. That is why I’ve chosen to be an ‘Independent Contractor’. To work when I want and have no one to set hours for me. She even stated that she STOPPED selling to start managing. Where is Mary Kay literature says that, that is an acceptable way of running your business? Other directors and consultants have gone through similar situations and have recovered and gone back to work. Others developed extremely strong units and their people will take over while she is unable.

  Mary Kay Inc is an extremely caring and giving company. They will bend over backwards to help and support all consultants, and she knows that. There were just some things that she did not take to heart while she was part of the company, and now, she never will.

  Now she has the money she wanted, and without having to work for it.

  Good luck to her and her family, and may the Lord watch and keep her.

• andrea pike // Oct 1, 2003 at 1:00 pm

  i was a consultant for mary kay from 1965 until 1980{approx.}i was never happier than the night i met the one and only,MARY KAY ASH.she was a beautiful person with a beautiful heart.you could feel love fill the room when she walked out.genuine love for everyone.how could anyone even think of treating her like that?obviously,this person was not made of material to be a consultant, to begin with. Andrea

• JOAN // Nov 29, 2003 at 11:26 am

  I love Mary Kay. The company is built on the Golden Rule. We are encourage to seek our God first, then take care of our family, and then our career. Mary Kay Ash says that success without your family is failure. I am a consultant of 7 years. In those seven years, I’ve learned that team building is immensely important. My team is like a family. I treat them the way I want to be treated. Therefore, when the director takes ill, the team will strategically work to keep the director afloat. In doing so everyone excels. This is a business where we help each other make money. In other words, the director who filed suit, did not have a loyal team. They allowed her to fail. Perhaps they did not share the Mary Kay vision. May God be with them, because they are representing my company.

• Carole // Dec 25, 2003 at 6:11 pm

  I became a Sales Director in 1993 and in 1995 I suffered an ectopic pregancy. I lost my car. Then in 1996 I was involved in a car accident. I resigned my directorship due to lack of production. I never blamed Mary Kay. I simply could not physically do the job that I had originally done. I left Mary Kay for about 5 years and rejoined in 2000. I rebuilt from the bottom and am now a successful director! My unit debuted on November 1, 2003. I do believe that attitude and emotions have a lot to do with every decision you make.

  Carole

• Kristin McBride // Dec 28, 2003 at 7:16 pm

  I am simply shocked that someone selling Mary Kay, believing in putting God first, Family second and career third could possibly be so selfish as to think that she has the right to change her mind once she got sick and sue the company. I wonder if she considered the amount of money that she still made from the hospital bed charity from Mary Kay or the result of the opportunity Mary Kay afforded her? Mary Kay provides a wonderful opportunity to women at any level to do something wonderful for others. How sad that she is using her sickness as a crutch on which to acquire financial stability. I think she should remember all Mary Kay did for her during the time she was a consulatant and be happy that God gave her that chance at all.

• Meredith DeLeo // Jan 5, 2004 at 8:04 am

  WOW! I can’t beleive this settled. I hope MK appeals and even slaps her with a countersuit! I understand she was unable to work due to an extended illness but 1st of all, she was doing it wrong. She admitted that she stopped selling to focus on team building. I think if she had been doing her business the way we are trained she would have maintained her business and quite possibly her income level. Had she have been an employee at an office and took an extended leave due to her illness she would have been replaced and when she was able to return the company would have had to find her a new position, possibly not what she had been doing previously. Here is a case where she wasn’t fired but merely was forced to ’step down’. The company still was paying commission based on the work of her unit but it wasn’t what she had agreed to when she accepted the position. The company did not “fire” her. She is free to regain her Director title and drive the car for free again.

  I can’t help but mention, if she was such a dynamite sales director why was she only in a grand am? Well, because she wasn’t a dynamite director. She was not doing the business correctly and even though she has been awarded a large settlement, I do not beleive she will continue to be blessed. This just goes to prove that although 90% of us Mary Kay consultants are doing it “right”, there will always we some bad apples! So if anything good comes out of this, I’m glad to know she is no longer training women in this fabulous, life changing career!

• Deb // Apr 4, 2004 at 11:15 pm

  LOVE IT!!!!!!! It’s great to see that Mary Kay Inc is FINALLY being held accountable for it’s selfish treatment of it’s Directors and Consultants. Mary Kay Inc is a Greed Center and the Company appeals to the most disgusting parts of the human spirit - the greedy, selfish, dishonest and superficial cells.

  I work as a Counselor here in California helping former MK Sales Force Members regain their self esteem and get their finances back on track. The stories are endless and just when I think I’ve heard the worst possible - another former Director or Executive Senior Director walks into my office, asking for help - she’s getting out of Mary Kay and her Mary Kay “friends” won’t talk to her anymore and her National Director has shamed her in front of the other Directors. I know the National did this since they was no way to explain this successful Cadillac Director’s decision to leave the Company without making her seem stupid and telling others that she “just lacked ambition”. Unreal.

  Mary Kay Inc brainwashes - their tactics are by no means new but they are VERY effective - their Sales Force and it’s about time they paid for it.

  This was GREAT news when it “broke” and we had a little party in my office with over 200 former MK Sales Force Members - with an ugly pink cake and everything.

  I just hope that more of the dozens of pending lawsuits against Mary Kay turn out like this one.

• Christine // Apr 4, 2004 at 11:22 pm

  Mary Kay women are among the dumbest I’ve ever met. They say they don’t work for Mary Kay - really? You don’t huh? Who writes your commision checks you idiots????

  I’m thrilled that this women won the suit - she deserves it. Kay Kay is a scam - check out more info at http://www.thecomplaintstation.com - I would love to see that behind the times Company (they are the laughing stock of the Cosmetics business) file for bankruptcy - they’re absolute crooks. The Company itself deceives it’s Sales Force by saying they are #1 in the US - NOT TRUE - Avon (which I personally think is a lesser product and do not use) outsells Mary Kay almost 2 to 1 in dollars. That’s a fact and Mary Kay has found ways to sneak around their Consultants since they are too embarrassed to tell them that Avon sells more products per year than Mary Kay. The whole Company is a disgrace.

  This verdict was fabulous - awesome!

• Independent Sales Director, Charlene B. Johnson // Apr 10, 2004 at 5:03 pm

  This is the Day that the Lord has made, WE shall REJOYCE and be Glad in It !

  You know, as women and men standing on the Philosphy of God First, Family Secong and Career Third, coupled with our self esteem, we are to look at situations and not react all the time.

  To my Mary Kay Sisters and Brothers reading this, we all have heard “Mary Kay Business May or May-Not be for you’, however it is your choice. As intelligent professionals of God’s creation we have the know-with-all of learning how to conduct and handle situations from day to day. Yes, life is challenging at times, for if it was not we would be lifeless as we lay six feet under without staying on our bending knees. Choices, a word that so many take lightly. We need to stop and smell the roses. On Sept. 11th the year the United States changed for several churches no longer had empty pews due to men and women feeling sorry for the many lives lost on that day to only for the MOMENT, take a breather to seek God. However, in time, we as people, with freedom of speech have a way of allowing our thoughts to travel-down the path of manipulation as our words are intoxicating based on lack of entire knowledge when things do not go our way. I ask (including myself)that we stop, and Examine ourself. Are we (REALLY) making every necessary effort to change our current life status? Or, are we placing it in words and not rolling up your sleeves getting up and out as a person (in slavery) going to that 9 to 5 job of 40+ hours for someone else to reep true benefits? Or are we speaking the words, “I am doing the work, however nothing is changing” as we go from day to day with the same mind set and no true new direction.

  I myself, have step back to examine my status as a Director with Breast Cancer and Heart Condition to only ask, what am I doing to lead my team and incourage myself from day to day to reach my dreams?

  Yes, the young lady had a health issue and yes, she has won a law suit, but has she REALLY -won…Yes, cheers go out to her of congrulations, as that not so cheers come her way. Self worth, is it in tack or will she place a mask over the truth only to pull it off at night behind close doors? The friendships she had developed as a Mary Kay Consultant I’m sure she found very rewarding not only for her nevertheless for the women’s lives she was changing. Based on all that was said and done, was her unit looking up to her and did they respect her to work hard and carry on-under her kind, loving, true concern qualiteis of true-leadership ? So many questions, yet, no one knows the REAL TRUTH but the young lady and the good Lord above. Jugement, let us not judge, but pray for her and others that speak negative about the Mary Kay Business. Together stand, divided we fall.

  We have choices in life.

• Cassie // Apr 24, 2004 at 10:38 am

  This is in regards to the comment Christine had made. How can you sit there and say that Mary Kay women are among the dumbest you’ve met? Have you met all of them? It’s pretty easy for you to sit there and criticize something that you have no clue about. Have you ever attended a Mary Kay event before? These women are truly a unique bunch of people. Mary Kay gives them a chance to work as hard as they want and to basically earn money at pace and level they feel comfortable with. These women are given chance to meet other women like themselves that they never knew, it also gives them self confidence. Maybe you should actually meet and talk to some women or check out an event before you pass judgment on something that you clearly have no idea about.

• Nichole // Apr 26, 2004 at 1:59 am

  Go Cassie!!! I agree…anyone who has to talk badly about a company or it’s representatives obviously has something about herself or her own company that doesn’t measure up to the company she talks badly about. In order to make herself feel better, more important, etc., she has to talk down on something or someone else. Personally, I see how Mary Kay Cosmetics changes lives of consultants and customers in such an amazing, positive way- and anyone who has anything negative to say about this company is just plain ignorant to what it is truly about. As the saying goes, “They know not that they know not”. So, I guess that is how it is for her and a few others, but as for me……..NO WAY AM I LETTING THE AWESOME MARY KAY OPPORTUNITY SLIP THROUGH MY FINGERS!!! God has his hand on this company! >>….N!cH*LE

• College Student // May 11, 2004 at 1:54 pm

  Hey Everyone..

  I’m a college student and am writing a research paper on why or why not is mary kay a good product to sell… This paper is due on Friday, May 14th. I want to write it just before than though… Could anyone give me some website/books/personal experience ect to help me out with my research paper?? I want to try to get this done SOON!!

  Thanks! I’ll check this site out tomorrow and Thursday!!

• Jason Bright // May 14, 2004 at 11:25 pm

  My wifey just joined Mary Kay a few days ago. She is truly inspired by the OPPORTUNITY to do something for herself. She wasn’t hunted down by a Mary Kay rep; she wanted to join, did her research, weighed the pros and cons, and made a reasonable decision based on the facts.

  What’s my point? My point is this. It doesn’t matter what opportunity you choose to take advantage of, the truth remains that, opportunities will only take you as far as you take them. There are no free rides in this world. Some people, naive in thought, seem to think that because they spend a few hundred dollars on a business venture, they’re are supposed to be guaranteed something monetary in return. This is the most ignorant assumption in the world. I’ve spent close to 100,000 dollars on business ventures, that because of circumstance, were forced to close operation. I am now engaged in a business where I literally spend about 15 dollars to make an average of 350 dollars. The bad part of the whole American Dream is that millions of people dream it the wrong way. Mary Kay is a chance for some women to find a niche in something that they actually like; a niche that can also bring along with it fringe benefits, like cars and money, etc, etc. The only limitations that Mary Kay presents, are the ones that you set for yourself, as with any entrepeneurial venture. I’ve never seen my counterpart so excited; I am going to make sure that she is surrounded by motivated, positive individuals, whether they are Mary Kay reps or not.

  It’s time for a wake up in America. Stop blaming our under-achievements on others. The best feeling in the world is taking something, like Mary Kay, from the ground up, and taking complete control over your life forever. My wifey will be one of the examples for all who believe that the American Dream is achieved by taking advantage of an open opportunity, and then making the best of it, she has my complete backing and love.

  I believe in success, and I believe in the Mary Kay opportunity. If you don’t, keep gossiping and punching a clock.

  All love to CJW and her new quest in the world of Mary Kay. As a note to anyone considering joining Mary Kay: if you have the desire, will-power, and the sacrificial spirit it takes to accomplish a goal, you’ll be fine. It’s been said that real opportunity only knocks at your door twice; is this the first or second for you?

• Former Consultant, "Melanie" // Jun 3, 2004 at 7:12 am

  I was a third-month Director-in-Qualification (DIQ) when I decided to end my Mary Kay career. With my full-time job, my family and my desire to return to my graduate studies, it was just too much for me. I spent 11 months building my unit.

  I have nothing bad to say about the company or the experience I had. What a great company it is, and I continue to use the fabulous products (the TimeWise is AWESOME!). I can see how former consultants would come away with a bitter attitude, saying that consultants are “brainwashed,” “desperate,” or incapable of holding down a “real job.” But there is only the level of brainwashing that you allow. If you believe in the product, believe in yourself, and enjoy selling cosmetics and building a unit of strong women to help you, then it’s not brainwashing - it’s encouragement and motivation for something you already like to do. If, however, you don’t like the product or if you’re not really into a career based on selling cosmetics and helping your unit members do the same, then yes, your brain is being washed if you stay in it and keep it up out of fear that someone will call you a quitter.

  My experience was all-around positive with the company, and if you’ve ever had an interest in cosmetics, go with Mary Kay. It’s proven, and the rewards can be great.

• Brand Spankin' New in Mary Kay // Jun 28, 2004 at 5:19 pm

  I just joined Mary Kay kind of by accident. I went as a guest for my friend because she asked me to and they had a drawing. I won the kit so I guess now I am selling Mary Kay products. I am a bit scared right now and confused about the whole thing. I am concerned how they say if you don’t want to do it that all you have to do is sell your stuff back but you are no longer allowed to come back. Kind of concerns me that if you become Mary Kay sisters, why family would just disown you so easily just because you decide that you just won’t be able to do it after all. I haven’t even had my first sell yet because I just got the kit on Saturday 6/26/04. I have so many questions and yet not sure who I would ask to get honest answers from. I would like to ask someone things and not get a sales pitch. I do think Mary Kay could work if you put the effort into it so its not that I don’t believe it is possible because I do think it is. Anyway just thought I would put something in.

• Mende // Jun 30, 2004 at 4:26 am

  You said it right on Jason! I wish all people could see from a different perspective than their own. My husband is also very supportive. I joined MK to meet people and make friends. But I’m earning money along the way with is a huge bonus.

  As far as being brainwashed. Get over it!! If you’re so weak minded that you fall prey to a little pressure to do what you’re not comfortable doing. Why that would be YOUR fault, not Mary Kay> Actually, if you do what everyone tells you to do. Buy inventory, work hard, speak to everyone within 3 feet of you. As hard as those things may be… You WILL succeed in Mary Kay. If you’re a nice, out going, honest, hard working person who LOVES and believes in the prodcut, then YES, you will succeed!! If you want to sign on and sit down and let the money roll in. Get over it. People will NOT knock on your door looking for MK. You must work your business. As in any job that happins not to come with the standard benefits, if you can’t do the work. You dont’ get the pay. Think about it. With all the tax write-offs you get with MK, couldn’t you get yourself some disability insurance? Or a better savings account? To protect from this sort of thing? It’s no ones fault if you fall ill and are unable to do the job. I cannot stand this game we play in this country. Holding others accountable for OUR faults and shortcomings.

  If you’re blaming someone else for your lack of success in MK, maybe you should have a conversation with the one in charge. We are, after all, to put Him first!!!!!!

  Mende

• ron reyniers // Jul 5, 2004 at 7:42 pm

  Didn’t anyone see Bryant Gumble’s June 3rd 1998 CBS show called The Public Eye?

  Claudine’s story was the focus but there were many complaints of Mary Kay discriminations, one about a Director with two decades of dedication only to be discarded like orange rind. The cult fallout to this national embarassment caused a knee-jerk firing of a revered woman CEO named Amy DiGeso who they would claim took the company in a direction they didn’t want to go and so she had to go. Yet they are a private company and as such have private mandates. The order to implement a no exceptions policy was delivered by a private owner named Richard Rogers and his now screwed over sidekick John Rochon. The fact they fired Amy over a cry Woolf story and then still fight tooth and claw, shows a propagandist cult that is holier than thou. Yeah Mary Kay was a great lady but her dream company became a nightmare for many. I was discriminated against over a job related disability and I was an employee. If MK women knew the true nature of their disrepectful old boys club, they’d run for the hills.

• Betty // Jul 23, 2004 at 10:02 am

  My clients have threatened to sue me because I sold them Mary Kay Cosmetics.

  Read the rest of the article here.

  Therefore I have quit selling Mary Kay and will be assisting in their lawsuit against the company.

  http://edumacation.com/MaryKayOpinion200

  I am tired of hearing people talk about God out of one side of their mouths and lying and not being accepting of any other religion but their own.

  Everyone in Mary Kay talks about God, but all I have heard is hate for everything that is not of their religion.

  You do more for your director then you do for your community.

  Make women pretty, but put their lives in danger is disgusting.

  If you don’t believe the article, call Mary Kay yourself and ask if they use the brains and spinal fluid of the animals in their products.

  They will tell you they are working on new formula’s and if that is acceptable to you to forgive a company that would lie and put your families in danger, then you deserve everything that befalls you.

  Turn a blind eye and a deaf ear and you are letting others destroy what God has given.

• Kdg // Aug 29, 2004 at 9:10 am

  I have been in the MK business for approximately 4.5 months and I LOVE it! I also have a Real Estate and Cosmetology license and in Real Estate you have to figure everything out for yourself, Advertising, promotions, leads etc. In MK they offer all of the ideas to get new clients, it is up to the individual to pursue it. Saying that, Everyone is Responsible for their own work habits and ethics! It is not brain surgery on how to make money in this business! Follow what your director has told you and you will succeed, keep close to your heart all that your National Director has shared with you and you will succeed! After only a few months in the business I am a Team Leader submitting for DIQ. I am a soft seller and I believe this can take a person a long way. GOD doesn’t intend for us to lie to each other and take our FAMILY for granted. Our CAREER is for building relationships with others, after all this is what makes the world go round! Best of luck to everyone in for the journey of a lifetime!!

• Princess // Oct 1, 2004 at 2:49 pm

  All of you who are saying these negative things about Mary Kay have no idea what you are talking about. Christine has not a clue what she is talking about. Her statements alone show that she is actually on of the dumbest people around. Mary Kay stands behind their consultants and behind their products. I belong to a fabulous unit. I have a great Director who has all her unit members in mind at all times. She is so willing to give us ideas and to do what she can to help us achieve our goals. I love Mary Kay products. There are going to be people who are jealous of your success no matter where you go. I think that it is a shame that these people who have never been a part of Mary Kay have the nerve to say such terrible things. I am appalled that this woman sued Mary Kay and even more so that she won. This never should have happened. This was simply another case of someone looking for the free ride. Unfortunately, she got it. For all of us out there who are actually working for what we have, give yourself a pat on the back. You are the true meaning of Mary Kay. As far as this all Mary Kay consultants talk about is God, well that is completely untrue. If you can be brainwashed by someone, then that is your own fault. These are some of the most wonderful women that I have ever met. They do not have a mean word to say about anyone. I think that you should step into the Mary Kay Company and see what it is really like before you go spouting off because you like to hear your own opinion. The only thing that I regret about Mary Kay is that I did not get involved in it until after the fabulous Mary Kay Ash had passed away. I would have loved to have had the chance to see her and meet her. She was an amazing woman.

• Roslyn Yearwood // Oct 2, 2004 at 7:35 am

  I hope the women who won the lawsuit realizes that “what goes around comes around” Have you really won? Just remember “You get what you deserve”. And for the people who say Mary Kay consultant are dumb. It takes one to know one.

• Dayma // Oct 4, 2004 at 5:20 pm

  I have been selling Mary Kay for almost a year. No one has ever made me feel bad for not being the top seller in the unit. I am encouraged and given ideas on how to improve my business. In order to sell Mary Kay you sign an agreement. All the information on selling Mary Kay and the requirements needed to be met to maintain your consultant status is stated. When you sign the agreement it is up to you to maintain your end of the bargain and if you do not then your consultant status is revoked. You agree to this with your signature. You are told you are a part of Mary Kay but it is up to each individual to keep up their own business and consultant status. The requirements are not set so high that someone whould find it terribly difficult to stay at consultant status. However, if you don’t honor your end of the agreement how could anyone expect the other party to do something you cannot. All the women of Mary Kay I have met have been great people. Yes, at the meetings the unit director has reminded us of Mary Kay’s philosophy of God first but no one has ever pushed religion on me. I choose to put God first.

• Jennifer Clinkscales // Nov 8, 2004 at 4:46 pm

  I have been a MK consultant for about 2 months now, and am still as excited about it as I was the day I signed my agreement. I have never been a “sales person”, but do have a great deal of knowledge in being a consultant for a company and having a home-based business. Although there is no “perfect” company, I do feel that this suit was very ridiculous. First of all, a consultant IS NOT an employee of the company and DOES NOT get the same benifits as if he/she was an employee. Independent consultants of most companies have to file his/her own taxes, do not get paid vacation or sick time, and most of the time don’t get health insurance (if they do they pay more than the average employee). Some businesses give perks or bonuses to the consultants, like Mary Kay. If you sell X amount and have X many people in your team, you get a commission check, a car, etc. Mary Kay, Inc. is very upfront about what they expect the team leaders and car drivers and directors to do. There is nothing hidden from the consultant. If you don’t produce, you don’t receive. Mary Kay, Inc. is a company like any other, they need people to use their service and buy from them…they intice the sales force by giving them perks. If the sales force is not producing profit, they don’t get perks. It’s as simple as that. I would also like to comment on Deb’s remarks. Although I am glad that there are people out there that help others get out of debt and counsel them on the emotions they feel when they are in debt, I don’t agree with all she has to say. I bet most of the women (men) she deals with that have been MK consultants have had debt or spending problems before and also self-esteem problems. It is not Mary Kay, Inc. fault if a consultant doesn’t know how to control spending. Mary Kay offers a chance to either carry inventory or not; it’s the consultant’s decision and it’s the consultant’s fault if they rack up thousands of dollars of debt. Learn how to organize, plan, budget, forecast, and most of all, SELL! If you can’t, you don’t need to go blamming the business. Every business has to know how to do these things. If they don’t, they will probably fail, and they can’t blame anyone but themselves.

• Jeannie Guadagnoli Wray // Nov 11, 2004 at 8:00 pm

  I have been an MK INDEPENDENT consultant for over 4 years now. There are definately things about the company that I don’t agree with; i.e., all the product changes (continually), the techniques the corporate sales (marketing) uses to get the INDEPENDENT consultants and directors to purchase more inventory, the way the “INDPENDENT directors” “help” new INDEPENDENT consultants “decide” what and how much inventory to buy. Let’s not forget that is how the directors get their paychecks (by how much their team buys). HOWEVER, we all sign a contract and in that contract, the business is very clearly stated that as a INDEPENDENT consultant, director, etc., you are entitled to NOTHING if you are not selling. I am very sorry that Claudine had cancer (she fought it and won, isn’t that enough for her?), but she’s directing her anger in the wrong direction. It wasn’t MK’s fault that she got cancer and MK doesn’t owe her anything because she got cancer. Again, Claudine fought the cancer and won… Cluadine has her life and her son, but she’s letting it fly by her with this ridiculous (because of the contract we all sign) law suit. I believe Claudine was given a second chance and I feel badly for her that she’s choosing to spend her second chance with such anger. I hope and pray she finds peace for herself and for her family. “God first, family second, career third” (maybe she wasn’t paying attention).

• Billie // Dec 2, 2004 at 12:18 am

  Mary Kay is what you make of it. It is your own business. Mary Kay, Inc. does not provide the CEO for your business. You are the CEO of your business. Whether you fail or succeed is up to you. I have my ups and downs, my successes and doubts, but I realize that the doubts are alot bigger than my Mary Kay business. All the doubts and fears we experience are reflections of how we feel about ourselves. Our insecurities hold us back in Mary Kay, just like they would anywhere else. The difference in Mary Kay is the support, sharing and encouragement. We are taught to be successful, happy people–not just in our business, but in life: relationship advice, parenting tips, how to overcome fears. I have learned lessons from Mary Kay that I will remember all my life. Mary Kay built her business to help women achieve success. This is part of the reason the company itself does not distribute cosmetics. With Avon, you can purchase products directly from the company; in Mary Kay, you can only purchase from a consultant. In response to the Avon comment above: I believe you that Avon has more sales, but Avon sells much more than just cosmetics (We don’t sell Christmas ornaments, for example.) Mary Kay claims to sell the most skin care and cosmetics combined. The products are incredible. I have always been skeptical in nature, but my customers experiences have sold me on the products. Some of the people who have written in are so angry. I used to be like that. I remember when Denise Austen got on my nerves–now I love her. When you’re happy, you tend to see the good in people. I think if Mary Kay were alive to see this lawsuit, she would have compassion. This lady may have won 11 million dollars, but I guarantee you, if you were to walk up to her on the streets today, she’d just as miserable now as she ever was (and probably complaining about some other injustice). My mom has been working for the same employer for 20 years with no benefits. She was in an accident and spent $300,000 in medical bills. She never blamed or sued her employer, because it’s not in her nature to do so. I am met some of the best women I will probaly ever meet in Mary Kay. I have also met women in Mary Kay who did not share the humanistic philosophies upon which the company was built. Whether you build your business on love or hate will be evident. If and when I give up my business, I will certainly not spend my time throwing “I hate Mary Kay” Parties, eating ugly pink cake.

• Wanda // Dec 8, 2004 at 11:31 am

  I ran across the web page quite by accident, and frankly, the opions expressed here are disturbing. I understand the appeals court reversed the verdict in Oct 2004, but I’m still dissapointed with the reaction from the Mary Kay consultants on this site. I am not a MK consultant, but I could have been a potential customer. I was interested in possibly purchasing some MK products and was looking for a consultant to buy from, when I found this article. Based on the opions on this site I could not conciously buy from this company now. Ms. Woolfe built a business for MK and brought them profit. Wether or not she is an “employee” or not, is besides the point. She and all of you bring your skill and talent for the profit of MK INC. MK Inc. is a company to do business for a profit. Period. Yet, the feeling I get from many of the opions here, is it is closer to a religion. Corporate greed has many faces, and one of them is “employee” loyalty. It seems very obvious to this professed outsider, that MK Inc. is very successful is getting the “employee” buy-in and loyalty. Proof of that is in the statements left here.

  “WOW! I can’t beleive this settled. I hope MK appeals and even slaps her with a countersuit”-Meredith deLeo

  “I hope the women who won the lawsuit realizes that “what goes around comes around” Have you really won? Just remember “You get what you deserve”-Roslyn Yearwood

  “I am appalled that this woman sued Mary Kay and even more so that she won. This never should have happened. This was simply another case of someone looking for the free ride. Unfortunately, she got it”-Princess

  These are just a sample of some of the statements I found disturbing. Freeride? Ms.Woofle had cancer, and she could have not only lost her life, but the life of her child. Hardly a “freeride” from not being able to work. How heartless some of these opinions are. Ms. Woofle brought MK Inc money, and she was dying. MK Inc. did nothing to help her. Not the God I certainly would worship, or defend.

  -I could have been a customer, but not from the likes of you.

• Tammy // Dec 9, 2004 at 8:51 pm

  To my sister consultants who are posting comments on this issue - kindly step back for a moment before you do so! Please remember the principles which shape our Mary Kay businesses and lives, and moreso consider that if we indeed respect and uphold the values that Mary Kay exemplified and inspired us with…much of what has been said here would not have been said. Mary Kay would not have reacted in some of the manner of fashions I have seen here nor would she have approved of it. Please govern your input with wisdom.

• Dee // Jan 26, 2005 at 8:57 pm

  We are not employed by Mary Kay, Inc. We sign a contract stating so. She was not fired from the company because we are only required to submit a minimum order of $200 wholesale per year to stay active with the company. As far as meeting the requirements for the cars, that also is an agreement that you sign. And if it were not possible for a woman with a family and cancer, speak to National Sales Director Rena Tarbet and let her know it can’t be done. She’ll let you know otherwise…she’s done it…and is still doing it. Cancer or not. We make decisions in our lives. If you choose to be positive, you’ll make it. If you choose to be negative, you won’t. It’s all up to you. Whether you say you can or you can’t, either way, you’re right.

• Gloria Buchman // Feb 16, 2005 at 3:41 pm

  Wow! This poor woman had to endure a horrible time in her life, only to be slapped in the face by the Mary Kay Corporation. I don’t blame her for suing. For the record, Mary Kay products are overpriced, horrible products. As an official “Beauty Consultant” for the entertainment industry, I always advise my clients to purchase make-up at your local pharmacy. It is just as good as the high priced make-up in the mall, and far, far better than the Mary Kay junk sold by their “Beauty Consultants!”

• Rich // Mar 1, 2005 at 1:18 pm

  This message board is amusing. The fact is, the jury was presented with evidence, given instructions on what Mary Kay’s responsibilities were to its contractors, and then deliberated and came to a consensus on Mary Kay’s liability. If Mary Kay’s practices in relation to this particular case were not actually unfair, then the verdict can be overturned on appeal. But apparently the jurors thought she had a case.

  Companies that function by commissioning agents rather than hiring employees are typically bottom line enterprises where the people at the top profit disproportionately from the work of the people on the bottom. I don’t know anything specific about Mary Kay, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all to find that Mary Kay is precisely this kind of business. Not a scam, per se, but neither is it any kind of company I’d want either myself or my wife to be involved with. Apparently, Mary Kay overstepped the bounds of fair employment practices by terminating this sick woman, and did so egregiously if the amount of the award to the plaintiff is any indication. Good for her. And to suggest that she is a woman who is chronically bitter and unhappy just because you are aware she filed one lawsuit is a pretty arrogant statement. Especially considering that the one lawsuit that she filed was SO persuasive in its merit to the jurors who deliberated over it.

• Joie // Mar 1, 2005 at 10:21 pm

  the dialogue presented here is incredibly interesting. in my opinion, each and every thought, each and every opinion is correct, from all sides of the argument. i am new in this mk business and based on what i’ve read here i believe i’ll stay in. only one comment above is borderline not true… don’t think you will enjoy healthy skin by using maybelline-like product from your local rite aid. just not true. one thing i know exclusively from 20 years of wearing the mk product(and mind you, i’ve only been a consultant 2 months) — it is very much worth the few extra $$ to maintain healthy skin. i came to this site looking for clever and exciting, fun ways to get women together and get the product on their faces. i see i won’t find answers here as the air is rather thick. but what is truly clear — it takes all types to make the world go ’round. remember, you get what you pay for. have an awesome day! j.

• KC // Mar 31, 2005 at 7:47 am

  I am getting ready to join MK for the second time. It took my recruiter 2 mos to answer all my questions and for me to make the decision the first time. It’s HARD WORK. And I worked hard. However, I realized it wasn’t my life goal. I learned so much about running my own business through the MK experience. And I am a college graduate. (Pretty dumb person, huh) I did not work for MK. I worked for myself. Even as I built my team, I continued working. When I lost recruits, that was their decision, not mine, not the company. I base my new business on the Mary Kay way of running a business. I am rejoining, because this is the only product I know how to use. I got tired of tons of stuff from my “local pharmacy” cluttering my drawers. I use the minimum of MK. My four children use it on their own. Three are Kindergarten and younger. I understand that if I don’t sell, I don’t make money. But at least I’m not supporting my local Walmart who’s goal is to put all the little people out of business. I won’t sell this time around. The company says I don’t have to. I also won’t be given team members, commission checks, cars, trips, prizes etc. Because I’m not WORKING for them. Any successful team leader, sales director or higher knows, you don’t get anything given to you by not working your business. I feel bad for this lady. But she didn’t work for Mary Kay any more than I work for my suppliers. And obviously she didn’t understand how her business worked. Oh, and for the counselor helping past MK consultants. Give me a break. Mary Kay was the only positive thing in my life, I think that’s one of the reason’s I’m signing up again. They obviously had other issues. And just the connection of MK to blame it on. I know my depresion isn’t because I was a MK consultant. To the new recruits, you will get out of this exactly what you put in to it.

• Shelly // Apr 5, 2005 at 2:02 pm

  It is hard to read these remarks. Whether you like MaryKayInc. or the products or your neighborhood consultant - what real difference does it make? The question here is ethics. If you don’t like the products then don’t use them. If you don’t think MK is smart business then don’t join. If you think the consultants are brainwashed then pray for them. Just keep the Main thing the Main thing. Everything else is irrelevent. People have the right to make choices. We have the responsibility to stand by those choices even if we regret the outcome.

  Should MK be held liable - I don’t know. I do know that when I had my daughter and had to have an emergency C-section my employer did not pay the extra cost. Nor did I get disability for lost wages. I’m not saying MK should not help this woman. But I do know one thing. I am going to do some investigating on my own so that I can make an educated, mature, adult decision for MYSELF. everything else is irrelevent.

• Laura // Apr 13, 2005 at 4:48 pm

  MK walks a very fine line with regard to ‘employees’ or ‘independent contractors’. I believe a directors 6 page agreement that she doesn’t get to see until 2 weeks AFTER she becomes a director is far more along the lines of the company ‘directing and controlling’ her business than the company wants to think. SIX PAGES of fine print - shoot, you can’t even leave the country for over 60 days or you are in violation of your agreement and can be de-directored. WHAT harm would it have been for the company to give this woman compassion and let her slide in production until she was well. She worked hard to become a director - other companies give ‘leaves’ of absence in crisis cases - what’s the big whoop? MK certainly wasn’t going under because of this director. For a company which preaches God and family and enriching lives of women - they sure don’t follow thru when the rubber meets the road! For anyone who’s upset about MK who has been in it and find it not represented as they wished it was - we have formed a group for MK Survivors and have many directors over there dissed by corp! It’s MKSurvivors@yahoogroups.com

• cnc // Apr 14, 2005 at 1:40 pm

  As a Senior Director of 4 offspring, top director and recruiter in Natl, area, I am ASHAMED at these comments against Claudette’s justified lawsuit and I thank God that you aren’t in my unit.

  It is HIGH time that MK corporate recognizes that they can NOT continue to take away directorship that NEVER rightfully belonged to them in the first place. It is the Director who works her tail off to build the unit and area NOT MK, it is the Director who puts her blood sweat and tears into her unit NOT MK. If it were NOT for the Director, there would be NO MK. You would think that by now MK would offer the Director compensation for her HARD WORK instead of stripping her of everything SHE worked HARD for!

  It is also HIGH time that MK show ALL consultants the Directors legal binding contract that the director gets to see AFTER she makes Director (2 weeks later!). Don’t believe me? Call MK legal dept and ASK for a copy! They keep it a secret otherwise no one would sign it!

  May God forgive your incensitive, heartless and Godless comments against a pregnant young Director who fought a courageous battle against cancer with NO help or compassion from MK (the company for women, yeah right). You have NO right to judge anyone less YOU be judged. I hope you remember your heartless comments when YOU are held accountable and judged for YOUR words. You’ll find out the hard way what Claudette suffered and I pray that God has mercy on you all.

  cnc

• Mimi // May 14, 2005 at 1:03 pm

  To Christine and others:

  Obviously you are unaware of the fact that Mary Kay actually owns Avon! Yes, you guessed it, that wise business woman knew what she was doing. So, guess that makes this company #1 and #2 !!

  Also, Mary Kay is the #1 selling brand again this year. They are the number one brand of skincare and cosmetics combined. Avon doesn’t have this kind of skincare line. Mary Kay has a focus on skincare and an extensive line.

  Oh, and the person that said Mary Kay uses some strange things line spinal fluid or whatever…please! That is just ridiculous. Mary Kay doesn’t use or test on animals. Some of you people will go to any lengths (even lies) to make your point sound stronger. Kind of disgusting and sad.

  A Mary Kay consultant works for herself. Guess what? She doesn’t have to work at all! Just like your nine to five job, if you don’t work…you won’t get paid. Pretty simple. Only difference is…I like the people I work with…ALL OF THEM! How about you? How’s that jerk of a boss treating you? Percentages tell you that most often they are not treating you very well.

  Some of you are making way too big a deal of this. If a woman wants to go into Mary Kay, what does it matter to you. It’s not some devil worshiping group. Geez, get back to reality folks! Let me tell you though… how many times has your job felt like it’s some slave trade? Hmmm?

  Just because someone else has made a good choice for themselves, don’t hate them. You can have the same opportunity. If it fits, then fine. If not, then fine. What’s the big deal. Some of you are just not cut out to handle such an opportunity. maybe you were raised and are around a controlling male environment that suppresses you? I don’t know! Search yourself ladies.

  Oh, one more thing… the Mary Kay business plan is taught at Harvard University! Now go ahead and tell me what idiots they are as well. Come one, tell me!

  To Christine and others:

  Obviously you are unaware of the fact that Mary Kay actually owns Avon! Yes, you guessed it, that wise business woman knew what she was doing. So, guess that makes this company #1 and #2 !!

  Also, Mary Kay is the #1 selling brand again this year. They are the number one brand of skincare and cosmetics combined. Avon doesn’t have this kind of skincare line. Mary Kay has a focus on skincare and an extensive line.

  Oh, and the person that said Mary Kay uses some strange things line spinal fluid or whatever…please! That is just ridiculous. Mary Kay doesn’t use or test on animals. Some of you people will go to any lengths (even lies) to make your point sound stronger. Kind of disgusting and sad.

  A Mary Kay consultant works for herself. Guess what? She doesn’t have to work at all! Just like your nine to five job, if you don’t work…you won’t get paid. Pretty simple. Only difference is…I like the people I work with…ALL OF THEM! How about you? How’s that jerk of a boss treating you? Percentages tell you that most often they are not treating you very well.

  Some of you are making way too big a deal of this. If a woman wants to go into Mary Kay, what does it matter to you. It’s not some devil worshiping group. Geez, get back to reality folks! Let me tell you though… how many times has your job felt like it’s some slave trade? Hmmm?

  Just because someone else has made a good choice for themselves, don’t hate them. You can have the same opportunity. If it fits, then fine. If not, then fine. What’s the big deal. Some of you are just not cut out to handle such an opportunity. maybe you were raised and are around a controlling male environment that suppresses you? I don’t know! Search yourself ladies.

  Oh, one more thing… the Mary Kay business plan is taught at Harvard University! Now go ahead and tell me what idiots they are as well. Come one, tell me!

• april // Jun 16, 2005 at 7:11 pm

  This is just a diplay of how some people just what money without working for it. It’s sad, and our childrent are learning this, bad work ethic. What do you think the children are learning from this law sut, find a way to make money without working no matter the cost,that is what they are lerning. Thats sad. If you stop working at any jop they would have let you go becous you are not doing your job, this applys here you don’t work you don’t get pay. That’s all there is to it. I just can’t belive that the courts fell for it.

• melissa // Jun 18, 2005 at 10:11 pm

  To the person who said Mary Kay owns

  Avon- AVON and Mary Kay are not affiliated in any way WHATSOVER!

  To all here who have bittnerness and a grudge against Mary Kay, I am truly astonished at the level of hatred and lack of personal repsonsibility. As a Senior Director for 9 years now I must say that Directorship is very rewarding when I work! Directors who rely soley on their units to carry them often find themselves disappointed. I would like to comment on Ms. Woolf- I am from the same NSD Area she was in. For those of you out there who think you “know” about Mary Kay, let me enlighten you. This woman DID NOT LOSE ANY MONEY by MK “Taking her directorship”. I can say this because a Director who IS NOT MAKING PRODUCTION IS MAKING CONSULTANT PAY- no ifs, ands or buts. If your unit does less than $4000 you only get 9% and bonuses don’t even happen until your unit reaches $5000 for the month and if she wasn’t making production then she was doing less than $4000. Where is the money she lost?? Did she truly think MK should pay her commission on sales that her UNIT did not make?? If Ms. Woolf was worthy of her position and a strong, loving leader her unit would have RALLIED around her to make it happen. The fact that they didn’t- speaks VOLUMES. I didn’t know her peronsally but I know others who did and frankly from what I hear she wasn’t a likeable person. THat is neither here nor there because the fact is her lawsuit was unwarranted. The fact that a jury agreed with her means NOTHING. Take O.J. and Michael Jackson for examples. The laws regarding “Independent Contractors” are very clear. The DSA and ALL other Direct Selling companies had/have an interest in this verdict (which was overturned by theway because the LAW is clear). There is nothing unethical about companies that use Independent Contractors- nothing!! I am so astonished at the masses of uneducated people out there who spout off about things the OBVIOUSLY know nothing about.

  Mary Kay, Inc is like every other company out there- about making money. True that MK is also about so much more but the $$ is the bottom line and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! That is the American Way- Entreprenuership!! $$ makes the world go round! Selling is a noble profession! Everything you have and do in this life is because SOMEONE SOLD SOMETHING.

  Those of you that so clearly “hate” MK- I believe your real problem lies with yourself and how you feel about you. Blaming and pointing fingers and being angry serves no one. If you don’t want to be associated with MK- GREAT- then MOVE ON. But don’t try to HURT the women who remain in MK. If you are the caring people you say you are then WHY would you purposefully do and say things to damage the reputations and finances of the GOOD women who are in MK. It is truly shameful and your words and stories say MORE about YOU than they do about MK.

  Have a nice day!

  Melissa

• Carmin // Jun 26, 2005 at 9:36 pm

  I was a Mary Kay consultant, my recruiter manipulated me, and others into bankruptcy. They push these women so hard that they abuse the women that they were sopposed to “help”. My Mary Kay recuiter has almost destroyed my marriage. I wish that I had never met her.

• Heidi Bates // Jul 1, 2005 at 9:09 am

  I am currently looking at becoming a Mary Kay Independent Beauty Consultant. I have felt some pressure, but nothing that I would consider unbearable. I would describe it as energetic enthusiasm. I haven’t committed to the idea yet, because I’m still researching the possible pros and cons. But after finding this site and reading all the posts I am not deterred in pursuing the business for myself.

  I consider myself to be a kind-hearted woman of integrity and poise. That may sound proud, but I am proud of the woman I am and so far, the women I’ve met in Mary Kay seem to share those qualities.

  I think the bottom line really ends up being that while commission checks are cut by the Mary Kay Corporation, their amount is up to us - the consultants. To me, Mary Kay sounds like a wonderful partnership of exceptional products/corporate kindess and hard work from the sales force.

  I am currently working full time as a Broker’s Assistant in a Bond Broker Firm… It’s not a bad deal, but it’s not super fulfilling either. I learned this job from scratch after having NO experience in finance whatsoever. If I can succeed at this with hard work and diligence, then I know I can succeed doing Mary Kay. If I don’t… I’ll know it was because I didn’t work hard enough. Just like if I didn’t work hard enough at my full time job to understand my responsibilities, I would have failed.

  It really is up to me.

  Heidi

• Lewis // Jul 2, 2005 at 10:26 am

  I am the husband of an Independent Sales Director who has been a Director since 2003 and a consultant since 1992.

  I find it interesting that, although this news article is from 2002, the discussion here about it still goes on. I guess this shows just how emotionally people feel about Mary Kay Inc. Just for reference and those who want an update, Ms. Angela Alioto (the lawyer for the plaintiff) later ran for mayor of San Francisco. Also, the California courts later rescinded the Texas jury decision and revoked the award, leaving Ms. Claudine Woolf (the plaintiff) with nothing. The whole sordid story can be found at this link:

  http://www.cob.sjsu.edu/facstaff/malos_s/CA%20Employment%20Law%20Letter%2011-1-04.pdf

  To be honest, I have mixed feelings about Mary Kay. I agree somewhat with those who take a more negative view of the company and somewhat with those who take a positive view.

  On the positive side, the company really is very supportive and helpful to their consultants. The whole lawsuit thing surprises me because I have had nothing but positive experiences with the corporate office, and being a Director’s husband I interact with them frequently. And those who make the point that a consultant or a Director are independent contractors and responsible for their own businesses are correct. This is consistently and constantly spelled out for everyone in excruciating detail.

  The product is also excellent. I use the men’s skin care and the men’s vitamins and I love both products. All the rest of the products are well researched and developed, and manufactured with quality. It is really an excellent product and the consultants really are taught and helped to sell the product as the base of their business.

  On the other hand, those who question the psychological aspects of Mary Kay are also correct. In my home, what I think of Mary Kay is pretty much irrelevant as far as our relationship goes – Mary Kay is my wife’s life and I am confident that if I ever placed her in a position where she had to choose between Mary Kay and me I would probably lose. I have heard others say that Mary Kay is more of a religion than a company. I would probably agree with this as well. It’s tough to be a husband of a dedicated Mary Kay consultant or director because any doubt, question or honest disagreement that you might have about Mary Kay runs you the risk of being classified as an “unsupportive husband,” a group just above pond scum on the food chain.

  The things that bother me most about Mary Kay, however, are monetary in nature. The psychology of Mary Kay discourages real questions about money. Many top directors and consultants are more than willing to tell you their GROSS earnings (e.g., my top commission check was $30,000 or my sales last month were $2,500). All the rewards and commissions that are touted at the weekly meetings, trainings, and annual seminars are based on gross earnings as well. But no one ever talks about NET earnings. For years I’ve been asking to see a Schedule C of one of these people, but have yet to be obliged.

  After 13 years of doing this, my wife has never posted a taxable income on her Schedule C of more than $3000. Last year’s was $2,600. Most years are losses. And she is a Director, with more than 30 consultants working under her (about a dozen are “active.”). Her gross income is fairly large, but her expenses are huge. A big part of those expenses are credit card payments on the debt that she has to keep paying off and racking up to maintain inventory levels and maintain her Director wholesale quota when her consultants don’t order enough within a quarter.

  Contrast this to my business, which I started on 1 January 2004 (only a year and a half ago) after being laid off from a corporate executive position. For 2004, my first full year of business, I posted a taxable income on my Schedule C of $52,400.

  It’s important also to distinguish between Mary Kay corporate and the top levels of the independent sales force. Those top levels are personified by the National Sales Directors (NSDs) of Mary Kay. Like all salespeople, they are independent contractors as well, but all the rest of the sales force is under them. They are the ones who control the tone and direction of the sales force and who are responsible for a lot of the attitudes and philosophies discussed by previous postings.

  I love and appreciate many of the things said by the NSDs, but some of them really infuriate me. Rena Tarbett, who is no longer as prominent as she once was, particularly angered me. She would say things like “when it comes to asking your husband about getting your kit or buying your product, just remember that it’s easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission.” In other words, just do it and tell him about it later. Now, I’m not the kind of man who expects my wife to be subservient and “ask permission” about anything, but I do expect that in a healthy relationship couples discuss major purchases and commitments together before taking the plunge. Another gem is this: when asked about average income, Rena Tarbett used to dodge the question with this response, “why talk about average? Do you want to be average, or do you want to be the best?” It’s funny that all of these things were in her tapes, talks and seminars, and that she pushed the sales of these tapes, talks and seminars so much that I’m convinced that how she made her real money, not from any work within Mary Kay itself.

  In recent years, NSDs have moved away from the old-school Rena Tarbett hard-line pushiness, but I still get the feeling that most NSDs make their money from the Mary Kay lecture circuit. And that’s the key to understanding Mary Kay – the customer isn’t the person purchasing the product. It’s the individual consultant. I really am hard pressed to believe that consultants make any money whatsoever. But there are lots of people making money off the consultants. The corporation does. In fact, from what I can tell of their financial and tax structure, they actually identify the consultant as the end user. In fact, even their “tax assistance program” (consultants don’t pay sales tax on the stuff they sell to their customers; the company calculates the sales tax for them and pays it when the wholesale order is purchased) which is touted as a benefit to the consultant is really an accounting device that makes it easier for Mary Kay corporate to financially categorize the consultant as the end customer.

  The high-level senior directors and NSDs make their money off the consultant as well. All during the year the NSDs and the company promote the annual seminar in Dallas. Since the consultants and directors are all independent, they have to pay all expenses themselves, including a registration fee. And they always say the same thing: “Don’t say you can’t afford to go to seminar – you can’t afford NOT to.” Thus convincing the consultant to part with the little bit of hard-earned cash she does have to attend a half-week or so of speeches, presentations and ceremonies from NSDs.

  And the NSDs who perform independent workshops and seminars, who sell their own materials, tapes, videos and DVDs all adopt that same attitude, thus increasing their own bottom line.

  Like I said before, the product is excellent. It’s a quality product that’s well researched, designed, and produced. It works well. But the real thing that Mary Kay and Mary Kay’s NSDs are selling is motivation, not skin care or cosmetics. And I would love, some day, somewhere, to see the Schedule C’s of all the Mary Kay consultants and directors in the company and be told that the majority of them, or even 30 or 40 percent, show a taxable income of enough money to truly live on. Somehow, however, I don’t think that will ever happen.

• Jennifer // Jul 3, 2005 at 12:40 am

  First off, let me say that I have been with Mary Kay for over 18 years, have chatted with the wonderful Mary Kay herself one on one by invitation (with my husband for over two hours in her office), have won cars, been a Director and am again this year a member of the Queen’s Court of Personal Sales. I’m not saying this to impress anyone, I just want you to know that I’ve been around the business awhile and have seen and experienced many things here, 99% of them very positive.

  While I agree with alot of what Melissa says, I have to object to the fact that she feels that Ms. Woolf would have made her production while she was ill if she was liked by her unit members (not sure of the exact wording, but that was the gist of it). I am no longer a Director, but when I was, there came a time that production was a problem, no matter how much my unit members loved me, the orders didn’t come in. You can’t squeeze blood out of turnips and when you have something as life threatening as cancer to focus on, especially being pregnant, you are not going to be recruiting new people. If those consultants (i.e. Ind. Contractors) you already have are doing what they want with this business, (and not necessarily what we want them to be doing) how can we expect them to “carry us” if the numbers don’t add up. I certainly wouldn’t want somebody going in debt to float my production.

  I agree with the other Senior Director who posted about taking away a person’s “Directorship” for lack of production. Anyone who’s been through it, knows how devastating it is. Number one, if someone isn’t making production, but chooses to continue to work, alot of the time for free, with adoptee’s, as well as her own people, promoting the MK products and opportunity, then the company should let her continue to do so. It costs them nothing unless she produces, in which case, she is doing what she is “supposed” to do to earn her keep. They benefit far more from having her as a Director.

  I had to let my Directorship go after a number of family problems didn’t allow me to focus the way I had previously been able to in order to keep new recruits coming in. Consequently, I couldn’t make production and as much as I loved the position, wasn’t going to go in debt to remain a Director, as many others do. This was in early 1998 and the company was not one bit supportive or helpful in working with me to keep my Directorship (they have since changed that stance, as I personally know people who have been given a lengthy period of time to get it together). At that time I was the only Director in a rural area (within a two hour radius) and had nearly 40 adoptee’s that regularly attended my meetings, along with a few of my own people. I was making very little on my Directorship, but pressed on because I love the company and really wanted to see others, as well as myself succeed. I held regular training sessions, Monday night meetings, recruiting events and anything else I could think up to help my adopted car drivers, and the rest of the consultants move up the ladder. The damage that was done when I lost my Directorship was certainly not worth whatever the company thought they gained by taking it. These 40 or so consultants were extremely de motivated because, as several of them later told me, they felt that if I, who in their eyes was MK in the area, couldn’t make it, how could they. At that point they no longer had regular meetings or recruiting events to attend or someone to train their new consultants locally. Many of them eventually left MK and became customers of mine.

  I love this business, so I have continued, but it took the wind out of my sails for awhile (along with everything else that I was dealing with). When my life settled down, I went on to become a Flight Attendant, which was a lifelong dream of mine. I still do that, along with MK and love it.

  Most of my best friends today are MK Directors, some very successful and others struggling. Often times the struggling ones aren’t doing things much differently than the successful ones (some are working much harder). Work is the biggest part of this business, but another part of it that can be a major factor is luck. If you happen to recruit that right person, it can make all the difference in your climb up the ladder. I have witnessed this among my Director friends, who also agree with me.

  I can sympathize with Ms. Woolf–being “demoted” is a horrible thing to go through–almost like losing a part of yourself. I personally would never call anyone who made Directorship a failure, most have worked darn hard to get there. The company is fortunate to have people who will continue to work that hard for the little bit that some of them make. I also can attest that others make a very good income. I hope that one day the company will realize the damage they do by letting these “cream of the crop” people go. Statistically, most people who lose their Directorship also leave the company, and it’s usually not on a good note. Ms. Woolfe’s case was an extremely poignant example of this, especially for a company who touts itself as being a huge supporter of cancer and women. This was a huge PR mistake on their part. On a smaller scale, how many current and future consultants and customers are also lost as a result of this policy? I saw what happened in my case and I didn’t speak negatively about the company, I only told those consultants who asked what happened, but in as positive a manner as I could. Most were shocked that this could happen once you had “made it” and especially to someone whom they liked and viewed as successful.

  Anyway, sorry to ramble, but I accidentally stumbled upon this board tonight while looking for something else and had to comment. To end, I would encourage anyone thinking about a MK business to go for it, it can be a wonderful experience. I can’t imagine how my life would be had I not decided to join this company. Yes, it has a few flaws, as does any company, but overall they are a very top notch organization, as are most of the people who have been here for any length of time.

• Kim // Jul 6, 2005 at 5:38 pm

  Good Luck To Everybody.

• Sara // Jul 8, 2005 at 1:24 pm

  MK Director Melissa,

  It is the pinkos like you that drive consultants like me into bankruptcy. I respect that you as a director CHOSE to be a director and used everyone around you to make your monthly production.

  Lets be honest, the reason MK is the #1 selling brand in America is that the consultants and directors determine MK’s sales. NOT the customers. I am in $10,000 in debt because of a pushy director who called me MONTHLY to tell me I had to be part of a team that keeps production every month. Her production. Nothing in it for me except furthering her climb up the MK ladder.

  It must be VERY rewarding to represent a company that doesn’t give one hoot about the individual in the sales force.

  How admirable!

  -Sara

• Melissa // Jul 9, 2005 at 8:19 pm

  Sara- you are a perfect example of someone who doesn’t know how to take personal responsibility for her actions. No matter how many times you say it or how many different ways, your Director is NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR DEBT. You are your own person and a grown woman who could have said NO. You could have chosen to be RESPONSIBLE with your finances. I don’t care WHAT your Director said to you about team spirit blah blah blah- YOU spent your money unwisely not her. Admit you are soley responsible and move on!

• Sara // Jul 10, 2005 at 1:10 pm

  MK Director Melissa,

  Tell me honestly, would you be where you are today without the women you call your “team” buying you into directorship?

  Didn’t think so.

  MK is all about cult thinking, cult behavior, and cookie cutter mentality. There is no originality. Every answer to every question is scripted and drilled into the sales force.

  Anyone who doesn’t conform to the pink way of thinking is deemed negative.

  Mary Kay cosmetics does NOT care about you, your family, or your children. As long as you worship Mary Kay Ash as the God of the universe you are fine. When you start to question MK tactics you are blackballed.

  Really interesting.

  I choose to now RETURN my $10,000 worth of worthless inventory to the company and tell them that MK sucks monkey balls.

  Have a great life, my friend.

• Cami // Jul 10, 2005 at 1:10 pm

  Melissa, Did you or did you not know that TimeWise was changing formulas when the company announced a selling challenge last Fall? They did, and they did that to get rid of all the old product. Did you NOT notice how the old timewise didn’t make it to the Pink Sale?

  Also, were you NOT aware that the Lipsticks were changing this year as soon as January (after Leadership) and how long did you wait to tell your consultants? Is it NOT true that Mary Kay deliberately started a program that offered an incentive to place the inventory order within 15 days of signing the agreement that helped Mary Kay get rid of their current lipstick inventory.

  It is this kind of behavior by the company that drives consultants to make decisions that are not beneficial to their personal business, but they do NOT know it at the time.

• sick of the pinkos // Jul 11, 2005 at 11:15 am

  1) Ms. Bates (July 1, 2005) seems fake. She purports to be considering a MK career, then states, “… while commission checks are cut by the Mary Kay Corporation, their amount is up to us - the consultants.” I don’t know _how_ many times I heard that _exact_ line from my sales director!!

  2) Melissa’s July 9, 2005, post demonstrates clearly that as soon as you question a dedicated MK fan, they instantly turn to vicious accusations of, “it’s _your_ responsibility.”

  In my experience, MK is full of such contradictions and fabrications. They will twist anything to get it to serve their own purpose. In fact, angry responses may even be justified by quoting the Bible, where Jesus overturns the tables of the moneychangers in the temple, by saying, “It’s righteous anger.”

  Selling the products may keep you away from MLMness, but being involved with this company on any level deeper than that is dangerous.

• Karl Wiegandt // Jul 11, 2005 at 1:59 pm

  To those who blame Mary Kay with forcing you into Bankruptcy, you have not mentioned that there is a 90% buyback rule on products that were purchased by the consultant. There are so many responses to these comments that I would like to make, but will abstain for many reasons. The company has been wonderful to my wife and I and I am so I have nothing but good experiences. One thing is that those that are rewarded are those that work. My wife works this as a full time job, and probably more hours than most pprofessions. There is a reaon why there are salaried jobs and self-employed jobs. Those that work hard in this career will reap the rewards far greater than the income potential. And the schedule C comment is ridicous as a good manager of his or her company sees the need for proper money management and will not on a continuous basis lose money because they are putting too much into the business. Does your wife claim all her CASH sales to the IRS, if not then that is a huge reason for this business. Feel free to e mail me any questions that you may have. If this is the only problem that MAry Kay has had in its 43 years of existance, then I think it is a remarkable record.

• Cami // Jul 11, 2005 at 3:05 pm

  Karl, are you in fact Dacia’s husband? Then of course you are drowning in Pink. Please read my comments below and ask Dacia the same things I asked Melissa. Do you think that Mary Kay is a wonderful company still?

• Karl // Jul 12, 2005 at 6:51 am

  Cami,

  I understand your comments, yet i do not think that there is anything wrong with the companies procedure. They do a great job of promoting new inventory on a quarterly basis to keep up with the market and keep the interest of all consultants. Of course there are going to be times when they need to do special promotions and giveaways to move the old and bring in the new. Have you never purchased anything on sale from any department store or grocery store? It is what all companies do on a regular basis and am confused at your hostility for these common procedures.

  I am very proud of my wife and HER HARD WORK. Please do not fault her for using her abilities to make an enormous impact on thousands of lives across the united states. Maybe it would better serve you to channel all this energy in a way that would help out those around you, rather than chatting in a forum about the few negatives of a company which frankly has done little wrong in its existance. As I stated earlier 1 lawsuit in 43 years is a remarkable record. Mary Kay REWARDS those that work hard and I would dare anyone to work as hard as my wife does and see the rewards (not financial) that you would reap.

• more than one lawsuit // Jul 12, 2005 at 10:12 am

  This original post just happens to be about one lawsuit. There’s the patent infringement lawsuit that MK lost ($26m to Neostrata), and the suits going back and forth between MK and Rogers’ predecessor, John Rochon.

  Not that “1 in 43 years” isn’t bad… but look at the content of these suits: wrongful dismissal/confusing “employee” and “independent contractor,” patent infringement, and the stinky battle between a guy who made money and a guy who spent money (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3862/is_200403/ai_n9361848/pg_1)

  It’s not that Dacia didn’t/isn’t working hard. It *IS* about the other side of the story… the people who are being taken advantage of, the brainwashing attempted, and the bill of goods that many of us were sold in the name of our own dreams.

  Some people were hurt very badly. For so long, no one has spoken up. Mary Kay has been the one non-MLM-MLM. So many people out there saying it’s not an MLM. It *IS* an MLM, and it borders on cult-like behavior.

  People _can_ make money in this business. But, it’s not all sweet-smelling roses. All this talk of “Enriching Women’s Lives” is a crock. Dacia simply found the right number of women who were willing to plunk down thousands of dollars in inventory to start their own businesses. Oh, and she probably has sold a lot of product herself along the way.

  Dacia may be operating with the best of integrity. However, that would be in the minority. It’s the majority that we would like to warn people about. Not the minority.

  I personally have no problem with women who run successful Mary Kay businesses. However, I _do_ have a problem with Mary Kay women calling me a failure because I _chose_ not to continue mine.

• Rachel Suddeth // Jul 12, 2005 at 10:13 am

  > To those who blame Mary Kay with forcing you into Bankruptcy, you have

  > not mentioned that there is a 90% buyback rule on products that were purchased by the consultant.

  You mean on “Section 1″ products (samples, catalogs, motivational materials, & class supplies, all of which consultants pay for, are excluded) that were purchased by the consultant within the last 12 month, less shipping and the cost of any prizes awarded you by Mary Kay, will be refunded at 90% of their cost at your most recent order (so items that have been discontinued & reduced are refunded at lower prices.) Yes, there is such a policy, and the recruiters will mention it big-time as they are recruiting you, but if you ever hint that you want to take advantage of it, they will pull out all the stops to discourage you from using it. Some consultants were told is was only good for their first year (it is really a rolling 12 months.) Many are guilted … their recruiter who they consider a friend will get charged back for their return. They are told how they can make more money by selling it even at a discount (if only anyone would buy the stuff!) They are told how they can never be in Mary Kay again if they do the return. All of these arguments lead many consultants to wait too long and lose eligibility for the refund.

  > One thing is that those that are rewarded are those that work.

  And then again, there are those who work hard at it and are not rewarded… actually lose money. Maybe they have the wrong personality for the business, but sure enough when getting recruited, they were told that didn’t matter.

  Your wife has received tons of publicity because she is the rare exception in this business. We’ve heard from many many consultants and directors who worked hard, long hours, and ended up with far less than they’d have made at a regular job, in the majority of cases actually losing money.

  > My wife works this as a full time job, and probably more hours than most pprofessions.

  Hmmm… and they told us when selling us the opportunity that we could have more time for our kids, and make good money working fewer hours than a regular job.

  > Does your wife claim all her CASH sales to the IRS, if not then that is a

  > huge reason for this business.

  So you are saying this is a good business for people who don’t mind cheating on their taxes?

  -Rachel

• thanks for the info // Jul 12, 2005 at 11:19 am

  Thanks you for all the information and I wish you the best

• more than one lawsuit // Jul 12, 2005 at 12:33 pm

  This original post just happens to be about one lawsuit. There’s the patent infringement lawsuit that MK lost ($26m to Neostrata), and the suits going back and forth between MK and Rogers’ predecessor, John Rochon.

  Not that “1 in 43 years” isn’t bad… but look at the content of these suits: wrongful dismissal/confusing “employee” and “independent contractor,” patent infringement, and the stinky battle between a guy who made money and a guy who spent money (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3862/is_200403/ai_n9361848/pg_1)

  It’s not that Dacia didn’t/isn’t working hard. It *IS* about the other side of the story… the people who are being taken advantage of, the brainwashing attempted, and the bill of goods that many of us were sold in the name of our own dreams.

  Some people were hurt very badly. For so long, no one has spoken up. Mary Kay has been the one non-MLM-MLM. So many people out there saying it’s not an MLM. It *IS* an MLM, and it borders on cult-like behavior.

  People _can_ make money in this business. But, it’s not all sweet-smelling roses. All this talk of “Enriching Women’s Lives” is a crock. Dacia simply found the right number of women who were willing to plunk down thousands of dollars in inventory to start their own businesses. Oh, and she probably has sold a lot of product herself along the way.

  Dacia may be operating with the best of integrity. However, that would be in the minority. It’s the majority that we would like to warn people about. Not the minority.

  I personally have no problem with women who run successful Mary Kay businesses. However, I _do_ have a problem with Mary Kay women calling me a failure because I _chose_ not to continue mine.

• Marjorie Mar // Jul 19, 2005 at 11:57 pm

  I can’t believe the complaints against Mary Kay. We have a consultant in our unit who sent her inventory back but was reinstated after a special appeal to corporate by our director. She earned her car and will debut on stage as a new director all in less than a year. She also has a DIQ in her unit.As far as being pressured into buying inventory I never have experienced that at all. I have been asked but if I felt this was not in my best interest I always said no and never felt any repercussions from it.When I became a consultant, I was given a superb product to proudly present to my customers.I was not given a cacoon to crawl in and be coddled. Where in the corporate world is there such a phenomenon.I also understood that if my business is to succed it is up to me. As far as changing product lines frequently, what’s the big deal. I just pretend it doesn’t exist until the original line is sold. Another thing,What’s the big deal about changing lip colors. I don’t get it. It doesn’t prohibit you from selling the old colors. Grow up guys. If you put 100,000 into a macdonald franchise and it fails , whose fault is it?

• Sick of the pinkos // Jul 21, 2005 at 6:33 pm

  Marjorie,

  I am about fed up with pinkos like you. I hope you die in your pink bubble. In fact, I hope you and your product go to hell.

  Mary Kay sucks BIG monkey balls.

• Pink terminator // Jul 22, 2005 at 8:23 pm

  Hey Marjorie!

  I have just 2 words for you. BITE ME.

• Marjorie Mar // Jul 23, 2005 at 1:40 pm

  Dear Pink Teminator and Sick of Pinkos,Your respomnses speak volumes.

• Sick of the pinkos // Jul 24, 2005 at 6:48 pm

  Dearest Marjorie,

  SO DO YOURS.

• Sick of the pinkos // Jul 24, 2005 at 6:49 pm

  p.s. Marjorie,

  Ever heard of SPELL CHECK????

• lk // Jul 26, 2005 at 4:54 pm

  Remember, Mary Kay is an opportunity. No one, No one can make you do anything. Be in charge of your own destiny and be responsible for your actions, whether you approve or disapprove of Mary Kay.

• Misty Williams // Jul 29, 2005 at 12:21 pm

  Mary Kay Cosmetics is horrible. These women infiltrate churches in order to get new recruits. That is despicable! Church is for worshipping God, not trolling for new recruits for some silly cosmetics “business opportunity”.

• LouAnnda // Jul 30, 2005 at 11:49 am

  I guess I just wanted to weigh in on this discussion as I understand both sides so well. I came across this discussion group totally by accident in searching Mary Kay on the internet.

  I was in Mary Kay over 13 years ago and the National Court of Sales and Recruiting. I walked across stage in Dallas, received a gorgeous diamond ring and met Mary Kay at her beautiful home at a special reception. It was a surreal experience. I was THE up and coming superstar in my unit, and starting to qualify for my directorship.

  I, too, totally bought into the MK experience, believed in the MK philosophy, was accused of cultlike behavior, etc. MK offered me recognition for my efforts that I had not received before, a belief in my abilities that no one else had held for me.

  I was also in a spiraling marriage with a very wealthy, controlling alcoholic. Being in MK gave me my self confidence back, my own money, recognition and self esteem. Enough, in fact, to have the guts to get a divorce. It was then that it all fell apart. I was on hold during my divorce and not performing at the level that I had been, although I certainly had not quit. I thought I was experiencing a difficult time and would get emotional support from the women around me in MK. That is what is preached constantly, women supporting other women. Intead, I was shocked when the directors above me, that I admired and loved, started to recruit my customers and team members out from under me. My whole team fell apart.

  I was so stunned, so embittered, that I quit MK and sent everything back.

  I then went on a quest to find a myself, along with a new career.

  I sold Avon for awhile and was their top salesman too. Sick of the sales game, I decided to go back to college and finish my BA in Social Science, and then I went to law school, but didn’t like being a lawyer. I got my real estate license and you want to talk about crossing the line of independent contractor status! That was a joke! Then, I went to work as a social worker, 12 hour nights, no schedule, in a group home. I am sick of it all. No one seems to appreciates the hard work that you put in. No one appreciates your intelligence or any innovative thinking. All they want is a gofer for as cheap as they can get, with as little benefits as they can get by with.

  So, I bought an acreage and isolated myself from the world, except family. Now, I find myself getting bored with pulling weeds and perfecting gardens and am starting to miss people and wanting to make money again.

  I find myself strangely being drawn back to the MK world. Not by anyone else, I don’t even know a MK consultant anymore, just my own desire. Something unfinished, if you will. If I do it, I know it will be hard work. But, I also know what the benefits are and what can be accomplished. I just wouldn’t be as niave about it again.

  I am remarried to a man that runs his own business. If he gets sick, we are screwed, plain and simple, there is no one to help, so I understand that side of it too. I also am aware that when a MK consultant reaches a certain level, particularly directorship, there are promises made by the company beyond what a independent salesperson has, that evidently was not followed through on. It is an abhorrent case, considering that MK and the MK company has been so entrenched with cancer research, and particularly breast cancer research. Where was this woman’s support? Like me, I think she discovered the dark side of MK way too late.

  There is no reason that a MK consultant or director should not be able to apply for a leave for a special circumstance and that the other members of her unit should not be encouraged to pull together just as they had by the help of other directors, etc. That would be a simple and direct way of doing it. There are answers to this problem, and they are not difficult ones. What happened to this lady was wrong, that is all there is to it.

  I also understand and agree with what many of you are saying about the pushiness of some MK people and some of the approaches that they use. In my mind, there is just no excuse for that kind of behavior. I never did it, although I was encouraged to and was successful doing MK my own way. I was definitely considered assertive, but did not find it necessary to walk up to people when I was out and about, or go to functions so that I could recruit. If you are working MK full time, you don’t have time for all that crap. You find your recruits at skin care classes and among good customers. I find it very unclassy to walk up to someone on the streets, or anywhere else and push MK on them. What a turnoff that would be! Someone is interested or not, in the product or opportunity, or not, go on to the next one. Don’t make people that you know take off running when they see you!

  On reflection upon my own experiences, I do believe that in many ways, it is what you make it. It is not my fault that these directors did what they did to me, however it was my own disillusionment and reaction to that disillusionment that made me quit and not theirs.

  I still harbor a lot of resentment all these years later, and even though I am thinking of doing MK again, I plan to look for someone from the ruby division to sign up with, and out of town. If I should do it, I will send in my contract with a qualifying order and start from there. My husband says to think about it as he knows that I will go full guns on it again. I am going to take the next few months, deep clean the house, clean out my office and get it ready, get my sales and recruiting packets together and look for someone in Feb. and sign up March 1, 2006. (Because I do not want to start in winter. Ugh!) Then, build over March to June and get ready to start qualifying for directorship again the new fiscal year. And, I will be what they were not, and know better to count on anyone else, besides myself.

  Thanks for listening. It has helped a lot to be able to write it all out.

• Marjorie Mar // Jul 30, 2005 at 11:29 pm

  Dear LouAnnda , Sounds like you have a bright future ahead of you. Go for it.

• Jano // Aug 2, 2005 at 7:23 am

  Far more than 1 lawsuit

  Mk has certainly been involved in more than one lawsuit by consultants. I can recall reading an article about Mary Kay sales directors in Working Woman magazine featuring a black sales director called “Tommie” showing her mink and pink cadilliac. This article I read in the library I think it was back in the 80s/90s mentioned a lawsuit against MK by about 3 women for overexagerating the profits to be made from sales. Since Mk is a privately held company, sometimes its hard to get details. And most times these things are settled out of court.

  It is rare that average women will see fit to challenge such a large corporation with the resources of Mary Kay. In addition, prior to the internet such lawsuits probably did not get the exposure. Frankly there have probably not been that many lawsuits against MK involving consultants, but certainly more than one.

  Mary Kay is a corporate entity, not a benevolent parent. When it came to business, Mary Kay Ash could be tough. Mary Kay corp sued and was sued throughout their history, from Beauticontrol litigation from the 80s, to the more recent alphy hydroxy lawsuit loss mentioned in this thread.

  Karl I know that you are a supportative husband and I applaud your wife’s success. You have seen the beneficial side. A number of women who posted here have seen a different side.

  Signed, Jano a former MK consultant and paralegal

• Sick of Pink // Aug 2, 2005 at 12:46 pm

  Mary Kay says your family is most important. However, Mary Kay fails to realize that not all women are married and have kids. What about those women? Or do they just not exist according to MK?

• Bamabee // Aug 3, 2005 at 9:15 am

  WOW! What a lot of emotion on this page. You know, I agree that it would be a generous display of caring for MK to have given this woman extra time to recover before taking her directorship. Having said that though, business is not charity. You either perform or you don’t. That’s what is so great about it. If you succeed you know it was your own efforts. If you don’t succeed, it’s a heartbreak, but that’s the breaks kid. Nobody owes you a second chance, even in the worst circumstances. It’s business. It’s about making money. Don’t believe me, ask the IRS. They say if you haven’t made money in the first three years, you’re not a business. Business = money. MK is a great organization that provides a positive environment for making money, but they are not responsible for you or me. I do believe that some recruiters acting in their own interests (money) use shady tactics. But, the company spells everything out in black and white. My responsibilities and their responsibilities. It sounds like someone trusted their recruiter instead of the contract in front of them. As any one who has ever faced a drill sergeant on the first day of basic training knows, recruiters don’t always tell the truth. Buyer Beware. You have the right to be angry, you also have the responsibility to be smarter next time you start a business, and not get sold on emotion and then blame everyone else because you made a bad decision. I think you should rejoin MK and sell that product and become a success by doing it the right way. Don’t lie to anybody, encourage people to buy more inventory than they can afford or encourage them to go into debt. You can avoid all these things and be an example. You don’t have to do it their way. And Wow, with $10,000 worth of inventory, you could have a great time doing it the ethical way. You could even lead a movement to change attitudes or you could do it just to show ‘em.

• Bamabee // Aug 3, 2005 at 9:46 am

  I would like to apologize for my comments of just a minute ago. I’ve thought about what I said, and I think I was being harsh. If you don’t want to sell MK, I think you should take it all out the backdoor and make a bonfire with it. I wouldn’t want all that stuff staring at me. I’d be hostile, too.

• single mom // Aug 4, 2005 at 7:27 pm

  I am consultant of less than a year and I love the product. The department store products never made my skin look and feel so great. When I made the choice to sell Mary Kay I went in with my eyes open. No one made me order anythng. I order all on my own. The only reason I can see this lawsuit happend is because the consultant wanted to reach her star status every quarter so she ordered more than she was selling and she got sick. Her inventory sat there. She could not service her customers so they went else where. If you are not working your business how can you expect to reap any rewards. Alot of people have made some comments here, good and bad. I am not a so called “church goer” but I do believe God or whom ever you spiritually worship has alot to do with how you see the world. Since I have been with Mary Kay I can honestly say I have personally grown. I am a single mother and do recieve child support but that does not mean he pays when he is suppposed to. At Christmas time he had not paid for 2 months. Mary Kay made it possible to give my little girl Christmas. I do work a full time job too and help my widowed mother around the house. Mary Kay didn’t fail this woman, she failed herself. I have learned so much from my director and about myself. We support each other, cry together, laugh together, cheer each other on. Everyone starts from the same place. If she lost her directorship its because she was working her business the wrong way, training her people the wrong way. If it wasn’t for an opportunity like this, how many women out there who are in abusive realtionships or like myself a single mom might be on welfare. This business is what YOU make of it. I am also a cosmetologist, I work for commission. If I am not cutting hair, i make no money. Same principle with Mary Kay. If I’m not selling, I’m not making any money. All the women I have met have their own obstacles, from special need child to being vision impaired or handicapped. I had my doubts too about the company and i’ve done my research and I believe this company is the right choice for me. Everyone is entitled to think what they want, thats what’s great about free will. I have not been brainwashed or maybe I am because I try to think for myself and be positive. Yeah I’ve been thru therapy for depression, taken anti-depressants( don’t tell Tom Cruise)but since Mary Kay I feel better and no longer take them and I feel great about myself and life. Those of you who seem to be bitter about the opportunity Mary Kay has for women must have lots of wrinkles from frowning and scowling everyday. Too bad your narrow-minded. Even the Grinches heart grew 10 sizes.HEE HEE. God Bless.

• Living Pink and Loving it // Aug 10, 2005 at 4:18 pm

  Wow! Lots of opinions to read about this one! First of all, I have to lead with a little background on me. I’ve been a consultant for nearly 6 years. When I joined, I SOUGHT OUT someone to sign me up! I had used the product for 4 years, and loved it. Being a professional accountant, I knew an in-home business was a great tax write-off, not to mention getting my own products at a discount.

  Now, I have a few comments of my own experience with MK I’d like to share, and comments some dealing with the pure ignorance and sense of entitlement I’ve read in some of these posts.

  I EARNED my free car in May, and I’m currently in DIQ. I have around 240-250 customers, and 14 personal team members.

  My director, who is now an NSD, NEVER, EVER, NOT ONCE, forced me, or anyone else, into inventory. She NEVER pushed me or anyone else into anything we didn’t want to do. Was our unit kept aware of our goals for the year and month? Yes! Were we notified by her when we become inactive? Yes! That’s her job to keep you informed! And guess what? When you sell product, YOU just made MONEY! Cash in your pocket, right now. Did she profit from you ordering? Yes! And why shouldn’t she? Her job is to train you, lead you, motivate you, answer your questions, help YOU be successful, to whatever level you want. I can’t tell you how many times that selling product put gas in my car or bought some groceries because I was out of my day-job money, and payday was still a week away. Need some money? Hold an appointment or get on the phone and do some good customer service. I can’t tell you how many times a customer has said to me “I’ve been needing to call you, but I keep forgetting. I need this, and this, and this.” Too easy!

  My director has said adamantly many, many times she does not want ANYONE ordering product just to order product. Not just to meet a unit goal, car production, etc. People would call her to “help” on the last day of the seminar year, and she WOULDN’T TAKE THEIR ORDER unless they actually SOLD THE PRODUCT and needed to order. She believes no one should go into financial ruin over trying to “help”.

  Did I start with inventory? Yes. I started with $3600. As a business woman, I saw the benefit of having product on hand. You can’t sell what you don’t have. And I knew I wanted to WORK MY BUSINESS….HELLO people, this is a business! Cosmetics is an emotional buy. If a woman wants a new lipstick, she’ll either get it from you or Wal-Mart. I can’t tell you how many times I sold MORE because I could give it to them on the spot.

  I was told about the 90% buyback guarantee AND the no coming back to MK if I do, UPFRONT! And I was told it’s not just the first year, it’s a revolving 12 months! It’s ON THE BACK OF THE AGREEMENT! If people would take the time to read what they are signing, that would eliminate most of the complaints I hear about. It’s not like it’s 20 pages long. IT’S ONE PAGE! I highlight it on the agreement and point it out to every new team member. That’s WHY I decided to do $3600. I couldn’t lose no matter what.

  My director, who is also my recruiter, is very upfront and frank with ALL the aspects of MK, and she teaches honesty and integrity to every new consultant and director. There are NO QUOTAS JUST TO BE A CONSULTANT. That is true. If you want to earn a car and/or become a director, there ARE quotas. Let’s think about this now, people. If you worked for let’s say an auto insurance company and your job was to drive to repair shops and customers homes and they gave you a “company” car in which to do this that get to drive for free, do you really think you get to keep the car and the paycheck if you quit? GET REAL! If that exists out there somewhere in corporate America, I’d love to know about it! You cannot have a FREE CAR and BIG GIRL commission checks if you DON’T WORK!!!! DUH!!!

  This company IS about God first (any God), family second, and career third, NOT career 33rd, as I see so many former consultants do! I had a personal tragedy over 3 years ago. My premature twins died shortly after birth. Guess who paid for the funeral? My sisters in MK graciously donated over 75% of the costs! My dad contributed the rest. COMPLETE STRANGERS gave me money! Women I did NOT know! In what other company would people not only offer their condolences, maybe a card, if they were really stretching, maybe some flowers, but their own MONEY? Flowers are nice, but they don’t pay for funerals or other expenses when you haven’t been able to work for 3 months due to being on bed rest.

  I know there are a lot of “Mary Kay Stalkers” out there (as my director likes to call them). These are women, consultants AND directors, who are pushy, agressive, not completely honest, selfish, I could go on and on. But guess what! You’re going to find that in any organization. People looking out for themselves, not the needs of others. Not everyone is going to live the principals and ideals of this company. Unfortunately, some people DO get lied to. And the women who do the lying are a disgrace to this amazing company and what it represents. But I’m a firm believer in what comes around, goes around. Women who don’t work this business the right way never get far and often times, lose everything. Unfortunately, not everyone gets honestly and great training like I’ve had the privelige of having. And I’m going to perpetuate the honesty, integrity, and incredible training I’ve received.

  As far as the company bringing in new products every 3 months, we are in the BEAUTY INDUSTRY. This is an industry that is constantly changing. Look in the clothing stores! It’s barely August and they are already selling FALL fashions! Same with MK. And whoever mentioned MK keeps it a “SECRET” when they are going to discontinue a product so the consultants will keep buying so they can get rid of it, GIVE ME A BREAK! Do you know how many customers love so many products we discontinue and search high and low to find them? We as consutlants network to help each other out. My customer wants XXX, so I’ll give you YYY, and we trade. We both win! You were able to get rid of a discontinued product and I was able to make my customer happy. Have a sale! Show me a store that doesn’t discount merchandise they are trying to get rid of because a newer, better, or just different product came out.

  I’ve heard a lot of great comments on this board, I’ve read a lot of lies, and I’ve also seen a lot of wah wah wah, poor me going on. Paging Pity Party, table for one. No one likes a whiner. Take the lesson and leave the experience. Take responsibility for your own actions (or lack of actions). We are all adults (that’s why you have to be over 18 to join). If you have questions, ask! If you feel you are being pressured, SAY SOMETHING! Stop being a weiny and stand up for yourself! If you go into bankruptcy or debt, you have no one to blame but yourself. I’ve never heard of a director or recruiter putting a gun to someone’s head and making them order, or do anything else for that matter.

  There’s my 2 cents. I love MK, and I tell every customer at her first facial with me, “I’m a lifer. I’ll be in MK til one of us dies. You can count on me to be here for you rain or shine. I will never pressure you into purchsing something, and you can always return any product you are not happy with for a full refund or exchange.”

  Lets paint the world PINK! Your life is what YOU make it! Be pro-active, not re-active.

• Melissa // Aug 11, 2005 at 7:25 am

  Wow. LOL It seems that many of you bashers are totally clueless about how a business operates. You are also double minded. On one hand you complain about “pink” sororities and on the other you say no one cares and it is all about money. Well, most businesses are all about money! DUH! This is America! Capitalism! Free Enterprise! Entreprenuers! If you abhor those things perhaps you should relocate to Cuba or China.

  The products change regularly becuase we are in an industry that changes regularly. It is about trends and consumer demand. Do you write the same diatribes about Clinique etc when they update their product lines?? Do you accuse them of ripping people off??

  As far as how MK the company treats people, I have always been treated fairly. I do not have unrealistic expectations of a CORPORATION. Nor do I have unrealistic pie in the sky expectations of my NSD.

  As a Senior Director with 2 Offspring, I have seen many women come and go and frankly the ones that are gone are not missed. Does that make me bad? Have you ever disliked a co worker at Walmart? Or wherever you work.

  And yes I am where I am because of MY efforts and the TEAM EFFORT. I didn’t use anyone ever. But people have used me, blamed me etc for their lack of work ethic and poor money management. Constulants have stood me up, LIED to me, hit on my husband, stolen product from me (borrowed but never returned). Consultants have wasted my time again and again. I do my JOB of teaching proper money management butI can’t hold the hand and balance the ledger sheets of all my consultants. Every individual is 100% soley responsible for their own money. I do not tell people to order product they haven’t sold- with the exception of INITIAL INVENTORY INVESTMENT and INVESTMENT in NEW PRODUCTS. If they want the Coach handbag on the star prize sheet then I suggest to them they should go to the mall and buy one for $300 instead of jacking up their credit card.

  Quit putting blanket accusations at the whole company and whole sales force, it makes you look petty and immature.

• lipstickchic // Aug 12, 2005 at 10:48 pm

  HUM…I just left a Rena seminar. Just picked up my Mary Kay bus. again after three years, because I still had 6 active recruits, and STILL made comission on them. After working a public job, for half of what I was worth, I decided that perhaps I should give my MK bus. another go. I never quit, obviously, I still have some team members left. Simply, I concluded that, good, bad and indifferent, this is the best opportunity around. What I do with it is up to me. We are the ONLY direct sales co. that pay 50% commission. Also, the ONLY company that allows you to “keep” your recruits no matter what. Tupperware has them fall off after one year–no more commission. Avon only lets you keep them if you order a minimum amount every two weeks. Speaking of AVON, I interview for a DSM position with them–a salary plus bonus job. After 5 interviews, multiple tests, etc. I was told I would be hired. They simply had to wait for the position to be available due to a transfer. Well, the transfer happened to the person that was going to hire me instead. Guess what? I didn’t get the job I was promised. That was my lightbulb moment. In MK, If I do the work, I get the position. Period. Before my son was born, I sold Real Estate. I was an “independant contractor”, as are all real estate agents. I had a complicated pregnancy, but still worked and produced. My son was born 7 weeks prematurely, so I couldn’t work for several months. My broker told me that he “filled my spot”. I know that could not happen in MK. Just as the Avon situation would not happen. I also listened to Rena tell how she was diagnosed with Cancer soon after becoming a Director. She still reached the top. Later, more cancer, treatments, then her son had cancer. She still reached the top. We can all either make excuses, or make things happen. The reason I slowed down in MK for 3 years was that I allowed someone to hurt my feelings. Well, she is responsible for her actions, but I am responsible for my re-action. I am accountable to God for using everything he gave me to the best of my ability. No one ever said there would not be difficulties. As bad as some MK people behave, it still isn’t as bad as my real estate cronies. I am just determined not to be that way. I could have sued my broker, Avon, and everyone else that hurt my feelings, ticked me off, etc. Or, I can work hard at making it different for the next one.

• mk truth // Aug 16, 2005 at 9:56 am

  to anyone thinking about joining MK - I worked for an executive director for about 1 year. After which, I was very disillusioned about MK. I found out that the sales director that I admired so much was very greedy and all she cared about was how much money she could make off the consultants. She would make money off them in so many different ways - selling them all kinds of supplies and info pamphlets at not so cheap prices. She always hyped up the crowds at every meeting and then at the end sold them a bunch of stuff. All the while - she bought very expensive clothes and shoes for herself and was constantly remodeling her house. At one point, she told me that out of about 4500 people she’s recruited during her career, only 9 of those became a director and I know of one of them who just quit. Think about what that means in the statistics - 9 divided by 4500 = 2/10ths of 1 percent!!! My goodness! If someone had given me those statistics when I started, I would not have invested $3600 in cosmetics that I had to end up selling on eBay for about 1/4 of what I paid for them. And you’ll see, if you look on eBay, that there are over 22,000 mary kay auctions - that is from all the consultants who are trying to recover their losses. They were all talked into investing thousands of dollars on cosmetics because their directors told them they could make hundreds of dollars a week, easy (piece of cake, they said). That’s what happened to me, anyway - I felt conned. So, if you haven’t invested your money yet, please don’t. You’ll be sorry.

• why all the fallacies? // Aug 16, 2005 at 11:26 am

  lipstickchick, what are you talking about?? MK does not pay commission after you reach “inactive” status, or 3 months after your last $200 wholesale order. And it’s not the only direct sales company to “pay” 50% commission. Mary Kay is not the benevolent entity that’s doing “so much better” than everyone else. It’s an opportunity. It works for some, but not everyone. Please don’t tear down those who choose not to do this business.

• Melodie // Aug 16, 2005 at 11:54 am

  Anyone thinking of signing on with MK or who has recently signed on but not placed their first order…Hope you have a mind of your own. Mary Kay’s motto of “can’t sell from an empty cart” and “women are impulse buyers who don’t want to wait for their product” are lines of crap. Do the business your way at your speed. See if you can round up orders prior to purchasing your initial package and go from there. Don’t be brain-washed; don’t go for the hoop-la of prizes (which most that your director will give in the beginnig are cheap and can be purchased anywhere). Also, be aware that many of the tips they give you regarding warm chatter (in stores, malls, etc.) are in direct violation of the no soliciting warnings posted all over stores! Cold phones calls are another type of harrassment; falling into the category of telemarketing. If you can “step out of your comfort zone” and talk to everyone within 3 feet of you about the MK “opportunity”, be prepared for recoils, sneers and general looks of contempt. Other than that, sounds like a lot of fun, huh?

• Linda Allen // Aug 17, 2005 at 1:23 pm

  I think all of us consultants, former and active have already been fed that line. For anyone who does not recognize the jargon of a Mary Kay consultant here is a breakdown. “Think outside the box” means let your director think for you and tell you what to do. “Warm chatter” which means talk to strangers and get them to listen to your line. Get referrals means have your friends give you names and numbers of more people you can harass. Book and hold skin care classes means talk a reluctant person into having one and then call them everyday up till the party to make sure they are still having it. Get a phone number from each guest so that they too can “hold a class” and get a phone call daily from you. “Do not be pushy” in Mary Kay terms just means do not resort to violence to get your bookings and try not to call after midnight. “Be discreet ” in Mary Kay jargon means use Star 67 on the phone so that your number comes up unavailable. “Reach for the Stars” means reach for your credit card. “You are not required to purchase inventory” is only the beginning of the sentence. Once you sign your agreement the rest of the sentence goes “but if you want to succeed you will. You wouldn’t open a store without inventory” “Attend your units meetings” means pay $4 to sit at someones house after an already long day for 2 plus hours in a skirt or dress. If you haven’t purchased anything for the week, you will not be getting a cute little 99 cent charm. If you spent at least $200 though you will get an awesome ribbon. “Think and act positive” means pretend you are always happy. When someone asks how business is say “GREAT” even if as you say it you are on your way to see your lawyer about filing for bankruptcy. When you reach someone on the phone, before they hang up on you tell them “I am s***o excited about this new product from Mary Kay. Is there any reason I couldn’t come over and show you and 3 or more friends the new product?” “Go to Seminar” means use your vacation time from your normal job for an out of town Mary Kay pep rally. Prepare to pay for your trip. You will get to share a room with 3 other consultants!” “Time is money” means do not waste time hanging out with non Mary Kay friends. They will only hold you back from being a Mega Star. “Mega Star” is someone who spends “mega bucks” on cosmetics that they will not sell or not use. Please, I am so excited to be out of Mary Kay and excited that I was able to unload it on ebay and pay off the debt from it. I am so excited not to have to call and bother people I don’t even know. I am also excited that I have all these little pink MK signature bags, they are great for picking up after your dog on a walk. The “deposits” on the bag will remind you just what MK is full of.

• anoninLA // Aug 17, 2005 at 2:22 pm

  Linda Allen - You said it all!! I agree with you SOOOOOO wholeheartledly!!! I am also so excited not to be in MK - it is pure torture! That’s the biggest bunch of phonies and liars I’ve ever seen!!!

• Melodie // Aug 17, 2005 at 8:38 pm

  Here’s an interesting site to check thepinkingshears.org

• Living Pink and Loving It // Aug 18, 2005 at 8:55 am

  To Linda Allen

  Your comments are ridiculous and exaggerated. Let’s address a few of these, shall we?

  Warm-chattering…it’s a choice. Not every consultant has to wc in order to be successful. It’s called people skills. If you want to do it, go for it. If not, don’t do it.

  Referrals…show me a direct selling company that doesn’t work off referrals. Ever heard of Creative Memories? Pampered Chef? Tupper Ware? I’ve never been to one of these parties where the consultant didn’t ask for referrals. Stop acting like MK is the only company working of referrals. How about real estate? Dr’s offices? Hair stylists? Cleaning services? Mechanics? How naive are you?

  Booking and holding scc…you cannot talk anyone into doing anything they don’t want to do. If she doesn’t want to hold a class, no amount of “harassing” will get them to do it.

  Reach for the Stars…does not mean reach for your credit card. If you did, that was YOUR choice.

  “You are not required to purchase inventory is only the beginning of the sentence”…let’s think about this, would you open a McDonald’s but not have hamburgers for people to buy? Or how about a clothing store with no clothes on the racks? Make-up is an impulse and emotional buy, just like eating and buying clothes. If you don’t have it, they’ll get it elsewhere. It’s not a line, it’s fact.

  I’m not even going to bother going on to any other of your silly comments. You obviously have no idea about time management, money management, or running a business. If your filing bankruptcy, you have money problems bigger than MK. And if you’re filing bankruptcy, whose fault is that? Sounds like poor money choices to me. Again, how does that have anything to do with MK? That’s why people like you will always be disciplined by a boss in corporate America. You don’t have the ability to govern yourself and your life choices. And when you “try” (and I use the word try liberally) and don’t succeed, you blame everyone but the one person who truly is responsible. YOU!!!! Get a grip!

  There are tens of thousands of women all around the world successful in this company. I think that’s proof enough. Apparently, you think everything should be handed to you on a silver platter. I dare you to start a business, ANY business, and see how much money you spend, see how many long hours you work away from your family trying to make a go of it. The cost to start an MK business is pennies considered to starting any other venture on your own. The franchise fee to start a FruitFlower business is almost $200,000!!!! That doesn’t include labor, a building/rent, utilities, supplies, insurance, etc, etc, etc. If you think $3600 will bankrupt you, again I say, your money problems are bigger than MK and were there long before MK ever came into the picture.

  Stop being such a cry-baby about your decision to NOT be successful and leave the people who ARE choosing to be successful alone. How pathetic. Get over it already. How many years are you going to be complaining about your experience? What a waste.

• Living Pink and Loving It // Aug 18, 2005 at 9:03 am

  To Linda Allen

  Your comments are ridiculous and exaggerated. Let’s address a few of these, shall we?

  Warm-chattering…it’s a choice. Not every consultant has to wc in order to be successful. It’s called people skills. If you want to do it, go for it. If not, don’t do it.

  Referrals…show me a direct selling company that doesn’t work off referrals. Ever heard of Creative Memories? Pampered Chef? Tupper Ware? I’ve never been to one of these parties where the consultant didn’t ask for referrals. Stop acting like MK is the only company working of referrals. How about real estate? Dr’s offices? Hair stylists? Cleaning services? Mechanics? How naive are you?

  Booking and holding scc…you cannot talk anyone into doing anything they don’t want to do. If she doesn’t want to hold a class, no amount of “harassing” will get them to do it.

  Reach for the Stars…does not mean reach for your credit card. If you did, that was YOUR choice.

  “You are not required to purchase inventory is only the beginning of the sentence”…let’s think about this, would you open a McDonald’s but not have hamburgers for people to buy? Or how about a clothing store with no clothes on the racks? Make-up is an impulse and emotional buy, just like eating and buying clothes. If you don’t have it, they’ll get it elsewhere. It’s not a line, it’s fact.

  I’m not even going to bother going on to any other of your silly comments. You obviously have no idea about time management, money management, or running a business. If your filing bankruptcy, you have money problems bigger than MK. And if you’re filing bankruptcy, whose fault is that? Sounds like poor money choices to me. Again, how does that have anything to do with MK? That’s why people like you will always be disciplined by a boss in corporate America. You don’t have the ability to govern yourself and your life choices. And when you “try” (and I use the word try liberally) and don’t succeed, you blame everyone but the one person who truly is responsible. YOU!!!! Get a grip!

  There are tens of thousands of women all around the world successful in this company. I think that’s proof enough. Apparently, you think everything should be handed to you on a silver platter. I dare you to start a business, ANY business, and see how much money you spend, see how many long hours you work away from your family trying to make a go of it. The cost to start an MK business is pennies considered to starting any other venture on your own. The franchise fee to start a FruitFlower business is almost $200,000!!!! That doesn’t include labor, a building/rent, utilities, supplies, insurance, etc, etc, etc. If you think $3600 will bankrupt you, again I say, your money problems are bigger than MK and were there long before MK ever came into the picture.

  Stop being such a cry-baby about your decision to NOT be successful and leave the people who ARE choosing to be successful alone. How pathetic. Get over it already. How many years are you going to be complaining about your experience? What a waste.

• foo // Aug 18, 2005 at 10:15 am

  Living Pink and Loving it: YOu’re being just as big of a biotch as you’re accusing others of being.

  Fight facts with facts, and maybe people will listen.

  Got any facts? Besides the one that only 2% of consultants reach NSD, and they only do so by recruiting hundreds of women that _preserve_ that pyramid structure. Did I just say pyramid??

• Living Pink and Loving It // Aug 18, 2005 at 10:19 am

  To Foo Says

  Maybe you need some facts. You can’t get to NSD by just recruiting people. Apparently, you don’t know what the qualifications are. There are over 2200 consultants in my area. Did my NSD recruit them all? No.

  Pyramid? Look at the structure in any business. How many presidents and CEO’s are there in your company?

  And nice language. Guess we all know you’re not a lady. I’ve refrained from calling anyone any names because #1 it’s uncalled for and immature, and #2 it only demeans you.

  Get your facts straight.

• Christina Garcia // Aug 18, 2005 at 12:12 pm

  Everyone has their own opinion about Mary Kay. The type of person you are is what allows everyone to have different opinions about different things. If i dont like tomatoes, that doesnt mean that they werent meant to be eaten. What a person has been through in life helps them make their decisions. No, Mary kay wont work for everyone because not everyone wants to work and you have to work to make it. Yes, some people will survive off of it because they work the numbers and meet enough women who love the product or who want to sell the product. No, mary kay isnt the only direct selling company that gives you 50% profit, nor is it the only one that gives you a career car to drive when you earn it. I have been in Mary Kay for 2 years. I have seen people fail in Mary Kay and i have seen people succeed. Whats the big deal? That happens in everything. Just because a person doesnt like something or isnt good at it, doesnt make it wrong for another person to do it. I had a friend who was a single mom of two and i am also a single mom of two. The company has helped me tremendously. I have quit my full time job and i am making more money than i was before. i also drive a free car. My friend has also profited alot off of mary kay. Her JOB check is only $200 for a month after her husband takes out child support. Because of mary kay she now makes about 400-600 dollars a week and she now has custody of her kids. it allowed her to purchase a home, drive fee…and have more self esteem. No, you might not like mary kay, you dont have to, but why fight about it when a person will do what they please?

• foo // Aug 18, 2005 at 12:47 pm

  Living pink: yes, you can get to NSD solely by recruiting. In fact, look at your Advance brochure. There is NO sales quota for the person submitting for NSD. In fact, there are limits to how much the NSD can sell on her own.

  And I don’t care if the NSD-wannabe is doing the recruiting or her recruits. She recruited those recruits. Which makes it a pyramid.

  Oh, and btw, why do you always bash J.O.B.’s and corporate America, if you’re a pyramid just like them? Good ol’ corporate can’t be so evil if you’re just like them.

• foo // Aug 18, 2005 at 12:51 pm

  Christina: You make a much more polite argument, although you’re still falling for the “free” part of that car… what irks so many people is when a consultant chooses to no longer build her busines, she’s called a “quitter.” And if you look around, the majority of people defending the business are downright belidgerent.

  They act as if this is the *only* way to make money, and if you’re making money any other way, you are evil because you’re neglecting your kids. Guess what? They all also say they have to work hard. That means being away from your kids. So, tell me this? Why am I so evil for working 20 hours a week and making more than the average Future Executive Senior Sales Director?

  That is why people get so disgusted with Mary Kay. They’re claiming they’re something they’re not. And they’re claiming that they *aren’t* something they *are.* If I have to endure, “We’re not MLM, we’re dual-marketing,” it _will_ make me puke. And I really don’t like to puke.

• Living Pink and Loving It // Aug 18, 2005 at 1:20 pm

  To Foo

  Read your advance brochure again. There is a sales quota attached to EACH of the 18 units over the 4 month qualification period. AND each unit must have at least 30 ACTIVE unit members at the end of the qualifications. Pay attention.

  MK is not a pyramid in the way you’re meaning it. In corp america, I have to answer to a boss. I have a set schedule I have to follow, I have so many vacation and sick days I’m allowed each year, I can’t promote myself, I can’t give myself a raise no matter how hard I work. Tell me, what are the benefits of that? In MK, I’m my own boss, I decide. So no. MK is not “just like them”.

  And to your comments to Christina, the people “defending” the business are no more belligerent (use spell check next time) than the people who are attacking it.

  I’ve never, ever in 6 years heard any say you’re “evil” for working a regular job and being away from your kids. I think a lot of what your saying is what you’ve perceived in your own mind. Maybe you had your own feelings of guilt from being away from your family.

  I’ve had people join my team, and become terminated. I don’t say they quit because you actually have to be doing something in order to quit doing it. I’ve also had friends in MK decide not to be part of this anymore. No one said they were quitters. They just decided to change careers. If they quit because someone cancelled or stood them up, or they got their feelings hurt, or whatever, then they are quitting. There’s a big difference between saying I’d like to pursue something different (like my good friend who is now an aerobics instructor and my friend who decided to go into nursing) and deciding you aren’t willing to work.

  I agree with Christina. MK boils down to people. We are all different. Some like MK, some don’t. Some want a 9 to 5 job and a boss, some don’t. Some people have great recruiters/directors and nationals, some don’t. Because everyone is different, there will always be someone who misunderstood, or maybe they were lied to or misled, or maybe they thought this was a get rich quick scheme. For whatever reasons, this business will always have people who love it and hate. And that’s about all.

• foo // Aug 18, 2005 at 1:37 pm

  The *units* have sales quota, not the NSD candidate. Oh, yes, you can become an NSD without selling a thing. But you can’t ever get there without recruiting.

  Oh, and I stop reading when you have nothing better to do than pick on my spelling. I didn’t pick on yours.

  You have to realize that you are not the only face of MK. We are not personally accusing *you* of lying and deception. We are alerting others that people in MK *do* this stuff. Just because you don’t doesn’t wipe the slate clean. Only Jesus can do that.

• foo // Aug 18, 2005 at 1:38 pm

  “I think a lot of what your saying is what you’ve perceived in your own mind. Maybe you had your own feelings of guilt from being away from your family.”

  Nice. I like this one the best. No, you don’t understand. I’ve had directors *tell* me. I’ve not imagined it. And you can’t discount someone’s argument by simply dismissing it as “insanity.”

• Living Pink and Loving It // Aug 18, 2005 at 1:56 pm

  To Foo

  “You have to realize that you are not the only face of MK. We are not personally accusing *you* of lying and deception. We are alerting others that people in MK *do* this stuff. Just because you don’t doesn’t wipe the slate clean. Only Jesus can do that.”

  Okay, so do you run around and point say to people, “Don’t get married! I know someone who got divorced!” Or “Don’t go to college! I know people who flunked out!” Or “don’t buy a house! I know someone who got treated real bad by their agent!” Get real. That’s a ridiculous argument trying to say that you’re just trying to “alert others”. People lie in every organization. Remember Enron? How about our very own beloved government? I’m not saying MK is perfect, it never will be, because people are flawed, and sometime’s self-serving. But if we live our lives based off someone else’s bad experience, we’d never do anything because someone always knows someone who something bad happened, and on and on and on it would go.

  Bottom line, live your own life. Stop trying to paint the negative picture you had to everyone else and let it go. You don’t know they wouldn’t have a good experience? So why would you try to stop them? How selfish is that?

• Living Pink and Loving It // Aug 18, 2005 at 2:26 pm

  To Foo

  And if you want to bring Jesus into this, everything you’re saying can be used in that regard, too. You’re telling me I’m not the only face of MK (I know that, I didn’t need you to point it out). Well, shouldn’t you be out there stopping people from going to church? After all, aren’t there thousands who have been hurt, lied to, deceived, taken advantage of, ordered to tithe, all in the name of God? Go, hurry! Tell people not to go to church! Or are you going to tell me those people are not the only face of God? Same difference.

  You can’t say MK is bad for the same reasons you can’t say church and God are bad. Everyone has their own experiences. That argument can be applied to so many things in life. “Don’t eat at that restaurant! I got sick.” Maybe you did get sick, that doesn’t mean I’ll get sick.

• Disgusted Husband // Aug 19, 2005 at 8:00 am

  My wife has been involved in MK for a little over a year now, I was supportive of her and attended a couple meetings and agreed with her on her initial inventory purchases. To be honest the meetings made me uncomfortable, I found them to be “pep ralleys” which in a way was good as they inspired these women, but I also found them to be pressuring as they stood me on stage and had me tell how I’m a wonderfull husband by babysitting and helping my wife handle the inventory. They applauded me and asked that I keep it up and do more. This was common among any husband that showed up, pressure him in front of his peers to support his wife and agree that Mary Kay was helping her.

  We have 2 kids and I now stay home with them to avoid the cost of a hard to find babysitter.

  I now wonder if avoiding these meetings mave been a mistake, my wife’s attitude has significantly changed especially toward work and marrage. To put it bluntly, she has quit her job and I’m ready to find a lawyer and begin discussing divorce.

  I look back at what I saw at these meetings and can see how these women, many unhappy with their lives, are told they deserve better and Mary Kay is the way. My wife’s director has a new husband who comes across as overly loving and caring during these meetings. He is very intelligent and has become a big part of these events. These women look at the relationship these two have and are desperate for it. My wife and I had what I would call a good relationship. A couple months back she informed me thet she needs more accnowlagment; I never tell her she’s pretty enough or that I’m proud of her………..Any future attempt to do this was put down as sarcasm.

  It seems as if she’s been coached on how she should be treated by her husband and how work is not for her. She now also has an arsonal of Mary Kay responses to defend her reasoning.

  I still love my wife but I’m loosing her to Mary Kay. I am now in fear of our savings and available credit.

• Linda Allen // Aug 19, 2005 at 8:40 am

  Hey Living pink!

  You are being a the biggest pink BIOTCH I have ever met. I am really glad you have such a GO-GIVE spirit. You really make people want to run out and do Mary Kay..NOT!

  Go to hell and take your pink crap with you. Go, hurry! Satan is waiting for you to make him over with your cheap, dimestore product.

  It is because of pinkos like you, Mary Kay now has a stalker image. I hope that dead woman is flipping over in her grave.

• my new identity // Aug 19, 2005 at 9:34 am

  Disgusted Husband:

  My hear breaks for you!! I started down that same slippery slope with my own husband. Luckily, we got counseling, and our marriage is back on the right road. Nowhere near perfect, but what is? Part of that counseling I didn’t see coming: we wound up de-programming me from what I was taught about values and beliefs in Mary Kay. I’m now much more positive. (Yeah! Go figure! With all that ‘positivity’, I was down on myself to the point of depression.)

  The thing that helped me the most (after the counseling) was joining the MKSurvivors group at Yahoo!. We have a few husbands there, and they’ve found it helpful, too.

  http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MKSurvivors/messages

  Hoping you’ll heal fast…

• foo // Aug 19, 2005 at 10:39 am

  And try http://www.thepinkingshears.org, too.

• foo // Aug 19, 2005 at 12:17 pm

  Wow. Living pink just went off the deep end. I don’t think I stated myself clearly enough. Should I now pick on the fact that she’s leaving out words? Oh, no, then she’d just remind me I once misspelled “belligerent.”

• Christina Garcia // Aug 22, 2005 at 10:38 am

  Why is it that we are making a big deal out of something so small? There are different types of people all over the place. Some will lie, some will cheat you out of things, some are honest and sincere. Obviously we all have had different experiences with the “Mary Kay People” in our lives. But whats the big deal? If someone wants to do something…let them at it. Sometimes the only way people learn is when they fall and have to pick themselves back up. Sometimes they’ll succeed and all you can do is give them praise. Slandering people doesnt make situations like this better either. In Mary Kay, some dont work enough, some work too hard and lose their friends and/or family, but you just have to even things out. It’s different for everyone. If Mary Kay is full of liars and dishonest people and isnt worth what anyone thinks it is…then why do you use your time talking about it? I mean, give your opinion and go…dont argue. It ruins your credibility. If you dont like it, fine. No one is saying your a bad person if you dont like mary kay or if you didnt succeed like some said you would. Yes there are EXAGERATORS in Mary Kay, i’ve been around those too, but some people really do like it, and some really are succeeding. Every unit in Mary Kay is different. The experiences one person has had might not be the same as another. Why cant we just accept what people want to do -Whether its be in Mary Kay or not?

• foo // Aug 22, 2005 at 11:10 am

  The problem is that we can’t just “give our opinion and go.” We state our positions, and get attacked. No, we don’t need to retaliate, but, yes, we do need to let others know that a lot of Mary Kay people are seriously misrepresenting the actual possibility of being “successful” (i.e., making a lot of money) in Mary Kay is very slim.

  In fact, it’s even worse than the 2% number stated earlier. That 2% number refers to *all* sales directors and nationals. Think about it. Out of one million consultants, only 450 are nationals. And only 20,000 are sales directors of some sort.

  Now, some may say that only the best rise to the top. That may be true, but it doesn’t mean that those percentages are ever going to change. How many recruits does it take to get to NSD? That’s my point.

  Now, if other people want to disagree, they will. And another argument will ensue because we don’t agree whether or not Mary Kay should be legitimately operating in its current form.

• Jennie // Aug 22, 2005 at 5:52 pm

  For anyone actually interested in the ultimate disposition of this case, check out this link…

  http://www.courtstuff.com/cgi-bin/as_web.exe?c05_05.ask+D+800147

  The case was reversed on appeal, upholding Mary Kay, Inc.’s contention that she was an independent contractor. I recommend you read the opinion issued by the Texas Court of Appeals–it is very interesting.

• marjorie mar // Aug 22, 2005 at 6:07 pm

  Dear MK Truth, I’m so sad to hear that your experience with Mary Kay was blighted by an unsavory practice of fleecing the consultants. There is one in our area that operates in that manner. One recruit of my close freind had a similar experience and we were so concerned about her getting caught up in spending on this director’s gimmicks etc.Then all at once she disappeared and we cannot reach her. If only she had askked the advice of our director or one of us we could have prevented this experience. We are disappointed too because we lost a freind. Marjorie Mar

• Christina Garcia // Aug 26, 2005 at 12:00 pm

  I just want to say that despite what has happened to some, I hope all can learn to appreciate the Honest people in the business. I am on my way to the top and the only way i got there is by working hard, and not giving in to gimmicks. I am doing what i think i should do and not what others tell me to do…its MY business afterall!! In mary kay…you dont have to do what your director says…you can choose to take her advie or not. I hope those of you who have had bad experiences with mary kay can learn to appreciate it for the honest ones that are in the business and for the people who are in the business…i hope you can feel sympathy for those who feel as if they’ve been cheated, because I know we’ve all been lied to atleast once.

• Joe // Aug 26, 2005 at 8:46 pm

  My wife has been considering joining MK.

  I was reading a lot of these posts, after my wife and I were talking to a couple of MK consultants. From what I gather, MK teaches putting God first, family second and MK third.

  From what I have seen about what happened to this woman who was with MK for 20 years or so, it kind of made me wonder. I realize that MK has no obligation to helping this person, but does it not say in scripture? And now abideth faith, hope, and charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. I know people interpret charity as love, but could not a company that teaches about putting God first, not show any love at all toward a faithfull representative?

  Could MK have done out of charity, what scipture teaches? This is quite confusing to me. Myself, someone who had worked for me after 20 years even though independant, who had some bad times, could I just completely turn my back to them? No, I am not made that way.

  Since reading all of this with discussion my wife has decided against MK.

  Joe….

• wired // Aug 29, 2005 at 7:35 pm

  I was looking for a legal story and somehow I ended up on this website.

  I read very lightly a few of the top postings. Can’t believe it.

  One way or the other. the legal system in this country is truly imposible. I work for a big corporation and if I were to get sick, I would be packed to go home and my Manager would probably visit once and then I may be mentioned over a coffee break. And I am a top performer.

  Why are dual Marketing companies alwys treated so negatively. How many corporations do we have in this country? How many Presidents does each company have? How many Vice Presidents do they have? And then Directors? Do I need to keep going?

  Every individual in Mary Kay, Stampin Up, Creative Memories, and others is given an agreement. Even if the person offering them the opportunity is not completely honest, the info is on the back of the agreement. And imagine that, go and research it yourself.

  Also, Mary Kay is I understand correctly will buy inventory back.

  A husband that is blaming somebody else for the marital situatioon is a husband that truly needs a reality check. An individual that believes something can be gotten for a little bit of work, is a dreamer. Don’t quote Bible just to be slick.

  I never read anywhere that no hard work is required.

  We all choose to hear certain things that are presented to us.

  Get real.

• foo // Aug 31, 2005 at 6:26 am

  Here we go again. Will you people please read the thread before dragging all of the “failed Mary Kay ladies” through the muck again??

• Christina Garcia // Aug 31, 2005 at 11:10 am

  Dont know what all that was about….but you ladies who “failed” in mary kay…can you honestly say that if your director would have given you more honest insight on the company and if you had a recruiter that cared about you instead of what they could have…you most likely would have succeeded right? Thats in everything you do. There will always be people in life who will con you into doing things because of the rewards they will get and then there are people who will give you an opportunity because they really care about you. I dont think Mary Kay should be bad mouthed because there are some honest people in Mary Kay. I dont think the women who “failed” should be bad mouthed either because maybe their “failure” wasnt there fault. If the right insight isnt given then the career wont be what it seems.

• amber // Aug 31, 2005 at 5:18 pm

  Christina Garcia wrote:

  >if your director would have given you more honest insight on the company

  Two questions:

  Why does Mary Kay Corporate prohibit the distribution of the Director’s Agreement?

  Why does Mary Kay Corporate prohibit the distribution of the National Director’s Agreement?

  It could not possibly have anything to do with the fact that those documents clearly cripple your ability to effectively retail Mary Kay products.

  Nor could it possibly have anything to do with teh fact that they both are one sided contracts, grossly tilted in favour of Mary Kay Corporate.

  >If the right insight isnt given then the career wont be what it seems.

  So why do mary Kay Recurits, directors, and nationals fail to tell new recruits the following:

  i) You have a 0.025% chance of not losing money, if you sign up for this gamble.

  ii) You have a 0.01% chance of showing a profit, if you sign up for this gamble.

  Amber

  Wind under thy Wings

• Christina // Sep 1, 2005 at 7:47 am

  They dont tell you that because it isnt true? Where did you get that information from? How could it be that me and my 13 recruits have ALL had parties, made money and didnt end up upside down or without anything? I mean, how could you possible NOT make money in mary kay. Seems to me the reason you failed isnt due to a directors misleading messages…its due to the #1 reason why many drop out of mary kay…POOR MONEY MANAGEMENT!!

• brandyhotchick@yahoo.com // Sep 1, 2005 at 11:58 am

  Christina,

  Take your pinko attitude and your unit and your inventory and shove it. It is pinko stalker psychos like you that give stupid Mary Kay a bad name. I hope that lady is rotting in her grave!

• marjorie mar // Sep 6, 2005 at 9:27 am

  If you can’t turn a profit on a product prchased at 50% off retail then you aren’t meant for the business world.

• fluffy // Sep 7, 2005 at 12:19 pm

  Wow, marjorie, you’re really convincing everyone to run off and become a Mary Kay consultant!

  Nice generalization and outright insult!

• been watching // Sep 7, 2005 at 12:21 pm

  Clearly, *all* aspects of business relate to retail sales. Let’s not consider any other roles in business at ALL.

• carolina // Sep 8, 2005 at 12:25 pm

  hey marjorie. do your research. 50% off retail isn’t a great deal. most wholesalers sell their product for that much or less to retailers. besides, 50% off retail isn’t much of a good deal considering you can get MK on ebay for 80-90% off retail.

• BC Spa Girl // Sep 9, 2005 at 9:36 am

  Yikes! What a discussion. I was compelled to keep reading. I am not a MK girl but I have friends who are. I am a consultant for BeautiControl so I understand the Direct Sales Beauty Biz. My “pink” friends aren’t pushy and don’t con people but they also aren’t trying to get the Caddie either. I know that MK basically tells their recruits that they must buy the “big kit” and it’s understandable they know that if they have inventory they will work to sell it. In any business you get what you put into it. If anyone believes that you can earn a 6 figure income without putting in the time, money & effort, then I have a bridge to sell them. Direct sales can be very lucrative especially for those of us that need the time to take care of our families. I love what I do I prefer the red convertible Mustang (which is in our name & cannot be taken away) over the pink car. I am a supposed to be a competitor but I respect the fact that we all (meaning from bc, mk , and Avon to maxfactor to MAC) have a product to sell & we do our best. In any business you are going to have those who do not have the right ethics but people need to learn that if it sounds too good to be true… it normally is. I use the facts when I recruit I tell them our consultants make anything from 0$-$50,000 a month I tell them that the $50,000 a month is our top consultant who’s been in the business for over 2 decades. I show people my books. I don’t know what Mary Kay teaches thier Directors, I know that in the direct sales industry you need to know you are investing in a business & find out all the information before you sign the dotted line. People can’t walk on you if your not lying down!

• Melissa // Sep 9, 2005 at 10:43 am

  Mary Kay is MLM. That means 99%+ lose money. The company only cares about selling inventory to the consultants. After that, they don’t give a rip…their sale is complete. When will you Kaybots realize that MLM is a system in which those at the top make money, and those below do not. It is nearly impossible to support oneself on MK alone. The only honesty needed from MK reps is this: We are MLM and you will almost certainly lose money. Period. Because of the system, and the system alone.

• BC Spa Girl // Sep 9, 2005 at 10:54 am

  Yikes! What a discussion. I was compelled to keep reading. I am not a MK girl but I have friends who are. I am a consultant for BeautiControl so I understand the Direct Sales Beauty Biz. My “pink” friends aren’t pushy and don’t con people but they also aren’t trying to get the Caddie either. I know that MK basically tells their recruits that they must buy the “big kit” and it’s understandable they know that if they have inventory they will work to sell it. In any business you get what you put into it. If anyone believes that you can earn a 6 figure income without putting in the time, money & effort, then I have a bridge to sell them. Direct sales can be very lucrative especially for those of us that need the time to take care of our families. I love what I do I prefer the red convertible Mustang (which is in our name & cannot be taken away) over the pink car. I am a supposed to be a competitor but I respect the fact that we all (meaning from bc, mk , and Avon to maxfactor to MAC) have a product to sell & we do our best. In any business you are going to have those who do not have the right ethics but people need to learn that if it sounds too good to be true… it normally is. I use the facts when I recruit I tell them our consultants make anything from 0$-$50,000 a month I tell them that the $50,000 a month is our top consultant who’s been in the business for over 2 decades. I show people my books. I don’t know what Mary Kay teaches thier Directors, I know that in the direct sales industry you need to know you are investing in a business & find out all the information before you sign the dotted line. People can’t walk on you if your not lying down!

• Christina Gacia // Sep 12, 2005 at 12:07 pm

  To give you all just a little piece of my mind…You guys that didnt make it in Mary Kay for some odd reason…sorry…but life goes on. Find something else your good at instead of wasting your time trying to belittle something just because you didnt succeed!! Get a life, or a job, or somet hing and make the best out of what you have. All you women out there that are in Mary Kay…GOod luck to you and keep your head up…dont let people bring your hopes down…jealousy is a very evil thing!!

• why would I tell you my name? you'll stalk me! // Sep 13, 2005 at 10:41 am

  99% of people in MLMs lose money. Yes, Mary Kay is MLM. Dual marketing is MLM. Why on earth would someone in an MLM try to sue, claiming she was an employee? She’s not, she’s a member of an MLM, nothing more.

  Once all you MaryKayBots stop trying to tell people Mary Kay is not MLM, we’ll stop trying to tell them for you.

  It’s the big lie, and we’re out to prove it. 1% of people make money in MLMs. Less than that make the “executive income” MKBots sell as the “dream.”

  Maybe if people like you, Christina, stopped lying to so many people, we wouldn’t have to tell the truth for you. But wait. We at least _have_ the time on our hands to do this. If your recruiter, sales director, or national knew you were “wasting time” on non-income producing activities, she’d have something to say to you: Get out there and sell! sell! sell! or, more importantly: recruit! recruit! recruit!

  After all, the _real_ money in any MLM is in the recruiting. Tell me it’s not the next time you wave a _commission_ check to prove something.

• Christina // Sep 13, 2005 at 1:17 pm

  Who in the hell said anything about wanting to know your name? The sad thing is that you guys that didnt make it are in denial and pull all these so called facts out of your asses and expect people to believe them. Why dont you show me something real that says..”only 1% of women in mary kay make money?” and please…make sure it isnt by one of you pricks who are just upset because you didnt climb the ladder!! Everyone runs their business differently and not everyone runs it the way their director or nsd tells them to. It all boils down to the truth…To make money in mary kay you have to work…if you dont…then you wont succeed. Sorry you didnt make it.

• name game // Sep 13, 2005 at 1:37 pm

  My apologies. We’ve found so many facts that have lead to the statement, “99% of people in MLMs will lose money,” that we forget KayBots are not in the real world.

  Compiled facts:

  http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2004/08/scamology-101-introduction-to-pyramid.html

  http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/resources/tenlies.html

  http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2005/08/kudos-to-brian-headd.html

  http://www.algae-world.com/algae45.html

  http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

  http://www.armydiller.com/financial-scam/links.htm

  Shall I continue?

  Both the IRS and the FTC compile data on the success/failure rates of MLMs, along with every other business. It’s well-documented that MLMs are money-losers.

  Oh, and what facts have you provided that you’re _making_ money in MK?

  “Hello, Kettle… my name is Pot.”

• Sick of the lying pinkos // Sep 13, 2005 at 1:55 pm

  Hey Cristina!

  I hope you die in a blazing car crash that happens to be a Mary Kay car. I would spit on your dead body. Roast marshmallows on your carcas.

  Take your Mary Kay crap and shove it up YOUR ass.

  -Brandy

• Amused // Sep 13, 2005 at 1:58 pm

  Christina…show me your Schedule C on here that MK pays you executive level (meaning $50K or more) salary. Furthermore, we don’t have “pricks” or “losers”. Many of us are successful in various ventures of employment, life, and our well-being. Many of us WERE directors who saw the lies of front-loading and lying our way to the top. We decided, instead, to step away from something that morally does not agree with our core beliefs. Furthermore, it is interesting that such a “girlfriend friendly” club would be so vehemenently outraged at anyone who chooses to leave or step out of the Pink Fog. It would be appreciated, I’m sure, by Mary Kay Ash herself if you do not refer to our friends and supporters as “pricks.” We all know that a proper and polite Mary Kay Consultant upholds the God first (and I’m assuming that means not calling detractors “pricks” and “losers”), Family Second, and Career Third. Besides, shouldn’t you be working your business and scheduling some classes versus harrassing the non-MK ladies and gents?

• Brandy // Sep 13, 2005 at 4:38 pm

  Hmmm..maybe Christina decided the water was just too hot for her big mouth and ran to hide in the bushes. She needs to stay her yellow, lying ass in the shadows. I would bet money she is knee deep in debt with her credit card. Poor rotting Mary Kay Ash, her body dead and ROTTEN. And Christina needs to join her.

• Makin more than Christina // Sep 13, 2005 at 5:09 pm

  Hey Christina…you must really be “working your business” if you have all this time to post snide comments here!!! Don’t forget, MK works when you do!!! Oh wait. That’s not true. It’s MLM. So really it’s just MK corporate gets rich when you spend money on inventory!

• Lyndie Martin // Sep 14, 2005 at 1:21 pm

  Hi Christina!

  Would love to purchase some stuff from you…what is your shopping website?

• Melissa // Sep 14, 2005 at 4:06 pm

  Christina’s web site is here:

  http://www.marykay.com/cgarcia123

  She’s kind enough to list her phone number, in case you want to call her.

  You can also email her at

  cgarcia123@marykay.com

• I think Christina gave up // Sep 15, 2005 at 6:56 am

  Or, is she making _so_ much money that she no longer has time to respond?

  Pipe dream. She’s just mad.

• Mary Kay is MLM/pyramid scheme // Sep 15, 2005 at 12:41 pm

  Maybe it *is* a pyramid after all…

  Quoted from Debra A. Valentine, General Counsel for the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/dvimf16.htm

  “Pyramid schemes now come in so many forms that they may be difficult to recognize immediately. However, they all share one overriding characteristic. They promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program, not based on profits from any real investment or real sale of goods to the public. Some schemes may purport to sell a product, but they often simply use the product to hide their pyramid structure. There are two tell-tale signs that a product is simply being used to disguise a pyramid scheme: inventory loading and a lack of retail sales. Inventory loading occurs when a company’s incentive program forces recruits to buy more products than they could ever sell, often at inflated prices. If this occurs throughout the company’s distribution system, the people at the top of the pyramid reap substantial profits, even though little or no product moves to market. The people at the bottom make excessive payments for inventory that simply accumulates in their basements. A lack of retail sales is also a red flag that a pyramid exists. Many pyramid schemes will claim that their product is selling like hot cakes. However, on closer examination, the sales occur only between people inside the pyramid structure or to new recruits joining the structure, not to consumers out in the general public.”

  How many people here have talked about “building teams” to “drive free cars”? Mary Kay people have all made a point to say that the _real_ money is made in “team building,” which is just jargon/secret code for RECRUITING. (See posts previously on qualifying for NSD… it’s all recruiting.) The product hides the recruiting.

  And, based on how much product is on eBay and gets returned every year, a good case can be made that the product sale is made to the consultant, but less than 70% is sold to third-party customers.

• Christina G // Sep 15, 2005 at 1:22 pm

  Christina just thinks that most of you gals are pretty pathetic!! Check into this site EVERYDAY to find out who is succeeding so you can try and burst their bubble. For the most part…some of you are fairly psycho and probably need counciling for your failures in life. Sad to say…but the world could be alot better without most of your input. Fair to state your opinion, but to bagger others? I mean, does it really make you feel that much better? If it does than hear this….You cant ruin a day or even a second of my life…you cant burst my bubble just because you didnt succeed. I mean, what am i supposed to do? Quit marykay because you failed? most of you guys are pretty danm sad.

• Delusional // Sep 15, 2005 at 4:38 pm

  Oh, so now it’s the royal “we.” “Christina thinks”?? Hm. I think someone’s had too much pink in the milk.

• Let down // Sep 15, 2005 at 4:38 pm

  No one even bites on the FTC definition???

• Fluffy // Sep 15, 2005 at 6:30 pm

  Yeah, didn’t you know this is a great conspiracy?? We’re all sitting here, every day, day after day, tormenting one poor consultant.

  I’ve only been here once, but this is too good to pass up!

  As a newbie to this board (oh, wait, it’s just one article!), it seems that there are many more that have been “stung by the bee” than actually make money. Let’s see… at least five identifiable personalities in the past few days vs. hm… Christina.

  Yup, I’m convinced. No way am I signing that agreement! So sad for that recruiter!

• Words of wisdom // Sep 16, 2005 at 6:52 am

  Christina, please take your meds before you respond again.

• Think Pink // Sep 19, 2005 at 6:23 am

  All I can say is at least most of the pro MK are respectable which is more then the con MK like Sick of the lying pinkos, “I hope you die in a blazing car crash ” and all the others with crude and vulgar language. I think all of them have proved their point . . . . We don’t want to be like them . . . so why listen to them!

• foo // Sep 19, 2005 at 6:39 am

  Oh, and Christina is just one whacked out person, operating in a vacuum? I don’t believe that for a second! Just read back through this entire thread. Any time a KayBot is confronted with the truth of the Mary Kay organization, you may not get vulgar words (and sometimes you do!), but the sentiment is the same.

  I love how people play indignant just because a swear word is used in place of something more “socially acceptable.”

  Calling people “failures” and telling them they “didn’t work hard enough” is just like calling them a “loser” or worse.

  Get off your high horse, look at the math, look at the devastated families left behind by this organization, and get real! This company is a company, just like any others, except that they exploit women who need “something more” (sound familiar?? all the recruiting material…). They exploit them to the point where they are thousands of dollars in debt, and some National Sales Director is on a cruise, berating her from the ship, calling on her cell phone, because she’s not working hard enough. What’s that National doing? Cruising on the backs of thousands of other women.

  Yeah, I’ll go back to my evil J.O.B., thank you. At least there I can take a sick day when I need it, actually _be_ there at my kids’ activities. Oh, and I won’t be too busy “warm chatting” all the moms there, and miss that great performance by my child.

  Keep it up, ladies! The bottom’s falling out soon.

• KayBots are just as bad // Sep 19, 2005 at 6:41 am

  Insult: ” marjorie mar says:

  If you can’t turn a profit on a product prchased at 50% off retail then you aren’t meant for the business world.

  Posted by: marjorie mar on September 06, 2005 ”

  Oh, and how are we supposed to take that? It’s just as biting as “die in a fiery car crash.” Just hidden behind a bunch of guilt and deception.

• Intrigued // Sep 19, 2005 at 7:33 am

  “Living Pink,” “Marjorie Marr” and “Christina Garcia” are the only MK voices here in the past few months. Three people out of 1.3 million consultants. Only three MK consultants “see the dream” of Mary Kay, versus at least 20 women and a few men that have been burned.

  Not a scientific study, but that’s a pretty bad ratio!

• Think Pink // Sep 19, 2005 at 8:36 am

  All I can say is at least most of the pro MK are respectable which is more then the con MK like Sick of the lying pinkos, “I hope you die in a blazing car crash ” and all the others with crude and vulgar language. I think all of them have proved their point . . . . We don’t want to be like them . . . so why listen to them!

• Not Pink // Sep 19, 2005 at 9:56 am

  Think Pink, do you realize that every time you refresh the page (to see if anyone has responded to your latest thrashing), you leave a tell-tale sign? Your comment posts again. Please stop doing that, it just looks like you’re starved for attention.

  (Can’t find anything else to criticize?)

• Bob Willkins // Sep 19, 2005 at 9:57 am

  I wonder if “Sick of the Lying Pinkos” actually _was_ a Mary Kay consultant, or was smart enough to see the light before getting sucked in.

  Too bad the sales director in this case didn’t have access to this information before getting involved with Mary Kay.

• Lyndy Rodriguez // Sep 19, 2005 at 10:30 am

  I think ‘Sick of the Lying Pinkos’ was probably burned pretty badly by Mk.

  This thread fascinates me at the extreme emotion from each side.

  It makes me sad that a company as large as this one that claims to “enrich the lives of others” does NOT enrich but use up and spit out people. If this truly was Mary Kay Ash’s dream for the world..It is pretty sick and sad. To use women and destroy lives is sad. Emotional abuse is just as bad as physical abuse.

  I say, Christina needs to know that just because she is successful at using other women to get to where she wants to go in MK, there are others who will resent her for that and will be just as ugly back to her as she has been to them.

  I think we all need to step back and look at the MK company without rose colored glasses and if this company is lying and using people, it needs to come OUT INTO THE LIGHT for others to see and know and beware of.

  My thoughts.

  -Lyndy

• Think Pink // Sep 19, 2005 at 12:38 pm

  Not Pink, Thank you for your kind way of informing me . . . but my computer automatically refreshes every thirty minutes! I’m sorry for everyone’s failures. I think the reason why there are so few MK supporters… Look at how long this has been going on, we don’t need this to feel good about ourselves. I found this b/c a friend told me to look how crazy this was and once I saw people bashing my fellow MK sisters I couldn’t have it . . .that’s the only reason I posted my message I don’t feel like I need to validate MK just to support women like Living Pink. That is why this is my last post, I have God, my family and a unit which is #9 in the nation (I’m watching our first TV AD right now I’m so excited!!!). . . we encourage our woman not to get into debt, and for many MK has saved their family’s, and houses. I only know success (all of the women in my family are SUCSESSFUL Director’s and future directors) and that’s all I will accept. Maybe that’s why our unit is different. So, for everyone who feels as if they need to hash this out go right ahead but please stop talking trash about the GREATEST GIRLS in the WORLD (at least most of them are)!!!

  Loving God, Loving Life and the greatest job in the world,

  Think Pink

• Lyndy Rodriguez // Sep 19, 2005 at 1:01 pm

  Think Pink..you CLAIM your unit is #9 in the nation. How many women have you used to get there? How many women have you talked to the way you have talked to us here? I would think TWICE about having anything to do with you and your nasty attitude and your nasty mouth. SUCCESSFUL people don’t trash others the way you have done here. SUCCESSFUL (notice the spelling) people KNOW they don’t NEED to trash others. SUCCESSFUL people don’t USE other people to get to their goals.

  I have a real J.O.B. and I make 10 times what you make. Guaranteed. And I will put my 1040 up against your Schedule C to prove it. Bring it on, girlfriend. I AM more successful than you can ever hope to be.

  -Lyndy

• Marcia // Sep 19, 2005 at 1:12 pm

  Hey Think Pink…the rest of us one here are

• Marcia // Sep 19, 2005 at 1:13 pm

  ooopps…

  Hey Think Pink…the rest of us on here are WOMEN. Too bad your “girls” can’t keep up. #9 unit in the nation??? Well I guess if you were REALLY successful, you’d be NSD and not just a lowly director! WORK HARDER!!!

• Lyndy Rodriguez // Sep 19, 2005 at 1:20 pm

  Sweetie,

  I make 10 times what you make, I work 4 hrs. a day. I have no children as I was beaten to an inch of my life by a man I trusted. I am not able to have children. But I have enough money to retire on WITHOUT using others to do it. I don’t stalk people at Target and I don’t lie to women about a fake opportunity.

  I am glad you are living pink. I feel bad for your unit members, though. Someone who is ignorant and rude and nasty is not a good leader. Maybe you should do MK cause you wouldn’t make it anywhere else.

  -Lyndy

• Brandy // Sep 19, 2005 at 2:33 pm

  To “Don’t care what you think” I think you and your “girls” suck monkey balls.

  -Brandy

• Better than Brandy.... // Sep 19, 2005 at 3:50 pm

  Brandy…you’re just pathetic girl! I’ll pray for you tonight. I feel really bad for people like you. Just look at the things you write….shows what kind of person you are. Everyone who says somehting bad about MK is just MAD and JEALOUS that they arent making what we are. And you, working 4 hours a day…if thats what you’re good at fine…but dont bash what im good at. Take care everyone….SEE YOU AT THE TOP MARY KAY GALS!!

• Not Pink // Sep 19, 2005 at 4:37 pm

  Think Pink: Your computer refreshes every 30 minutes?? You need to stop using that thing, it has a mind of it’s own. By the way, “refreshing” doesn’t include hitting the Reload button. I don’t buy one character of that excuse.

• Peace // Sep 19, 2005 at 4:43 pm

  Better than Brandy: At the top of what? It’s all greed. Mary Kay builds dreams founded by greed. There is no peace in a pink world where all you want is more.

• Mary Kay or not // Sep 20, 2005 at 4:51 am

  UUUMMMM since when does being successful mean “I make more money then you do”???? I thought success was your relationship with God, the relationships in life, your love for your husband, happy healthy kids, enjoying your job, and a love for life in general. It sounds to me like these MK woman on here (living pink, think pink, etc) don’t have MONEY at the forefront of their businesses, like all the rest or you do. Yes I know that a lot of people in Mary Kay don’t put people first, and that’s why ya’ll are so mad. You had bad directors, there are bad managers in every business in America not just Mary Kay. But from what it sounds like these girls are doing nothing wrong and they are defiantly not mean like most of the non Mary Kay People. And you know what? I’m sure God will bless them for that, they WILL be NSD’s while WE are still sitting here arguing about nothing. Well I’m not going to just sit around I’m going to join. This post has made up my mind. And I would rather be like them then be like ya’ll. Maybe I’ll join on of these girls’ teams. (I’ll let you know what they are like!) Think Pink here I come!!! So, go ahead and make nasty comments about me (you’ll only prove my point) but I’ve got a new business to run so I’m leaving here and never looking back!

• #9 unit means money // Sep 20, 2005 at 7:23 am

  What about all the others here who have been making _logical_ arguments agains _all_ MLMs?? They’re not being nasty. Get over yourselves, women! You’re both bashing, just by calling the others out. Cut the chatter and get back to the numbers.

  When all these pink people claim “we’re the #9 unit,” that means MONEY. Yes, they all do put money first, because that’s what “success” in Mary Kay is: selling lots of products and recruiting lots of women who place large inventory orders as they buy into a MONEY-based dream.

  No one is following one single logical argument to its conclusion. It’s all degraded into a bunch of character-bashing here. So, go back and do your homework, ladies (and I use that term loosely). You’ll find that there is no profit in an MLM until you _recruit_ lots of people. That fact right there makes all of these schemes ***illegal pyramid schemes***.

  Go ahead and dump your money into them. See if I care. If you make it to the top, you’ll be one of 0.02% who do, and you’ll have done it on the backs of at least 300 other women’s hard work. (To make NSD, you need at least 10 units; each unit debuts with a minimum of 30 women. This is a conservative estimate.)

  Now, anyone want to dispute the numbers, or just sling more mud?

• Melanie // Sep 20, 2005 at 7:46 am

  You need 18 units for NSD, not 10. Time $5,000 production each per month = $90,000 production total per month. (Notice I say PRODUCTION, as the company doesn’t care if anyone actually sells anything.) And you need 30 victims per unit = 540 current victims total. With an attrition rate of 95% or so, that means another 10,000 or so casualties (ex-consultants).

  How could anyone sleep at night?

• #9 unit means money // Sep 20, 2005 at 7:52 am

  Melanie: What does the attrition rate (95%) mean, and how does it turn 540 consultants into 10,000?

• MidWestern Woman // Sep 20, 2005 at 8:11 am

  I signed up to be a consultant because I needed the extra money. I purchased the $600.00 inventory option, and allowed my director to place my first order for me. Between the time that I signed up (August 2004) and the time I returned my product (September 2005), I moved cross country. When I returned my product after several months of serious thought, consideration and prayer, a good majority of the product that I returned, was items that my director ordered for me initially.

  What really got my attention though, was when I realised that had I NOT joined Mary Kay, I would have had one of my credit cards paid off in full by June 2005. Because I joined though, that card remained maxed out, and I got another card to use for my Mary Kay purchases. I paid the minimum payment on all my cards, plus a little extra when I could.

  Before contacting the repurchase department, I called my director and my recruiter both to let them know what I was doing. My recruiter still wants me at her debut (and told me that she would fly me to where she is to have me there), as she will be going DIQ later this fall. My director however, spent an hour on the phone with me trying to convince me to stay. People claim that they do Mary Kay to spend more time with their family… The whole time she was on the phone with me, I could hear her husband call that dinner was ready, and her daughter trying to ask her to please come have dinner with the family. My director recently gave birth, and less than a week later was hosting her meetings again, spending 2 - 4 hours away from her newborn son. Two weeks after she gave birth she attended seminar, leaving her newborn son with her husband and a nanny. How is that living “God First, Family Second, Career Third”? When I told her that I had prayed about it, and felt that I had made the best decision for me, she got very quiet (I had never discussed religion with her before, and I thinks he was surprised that I mentioned God to her). After a few moments, she told me to pray on it again before I do anything (implying to me that I hadn’t prayed enough, or that she hoped I’d have a Divine Intervention to change my mind). My statements of wanting to spend more time with my family were brushed off, as well as my dedication to finding a job that was going to offer me insurance. My mentioning God and prayer was met with “do it again”, as though she hoped that more prayer would lead to God having changed His mind about my path. That made me very uncomfortable, and I returned my product very soon after that.

• Not Pink // Sep 20, 2005 at 8:25 am

  Think Pink: I just realized another piece of evidence to prove you’re lying about that “refreshing every 30 minutes” thing. There would be 48 new instances of your post, because it showed up the next day, too. So, that means you didn’t close your browser between day 1 and day 2, and that would have meant that there would be a copy of your post EVERY HALF HOUR!

  See how easy they lie??

• Melanie // Sep 20, 2005 at 11:38 am

  Sorry for using big words like “attrition”. I’ll try to dumb it down for ya.

  95%+ of people who come into MK are out within 2 years. So the 540 (30 active x 18 units) would represent only 5% of those recruited by the 18 units. If 540 is 5%, then the other 95% that bit the dust (became additional casualties of MK) would equal about 10,000. See how easy the math is???

  So at least 10,000 victims for every NSD, and that’s on the low end!!!

• Poor YOU // Sep 20, 2005 at 11:43 am

  Not Pink….you’re thinking a little too hard about things honey…just let it go!

• Not Pink // Sep 20, 2005 at 11:47 am

  Hm. Just trying to dicredit my witness, “Poor YOU.” If it bugs you so much, try coming back with something real. Sales Directors are taught how to lie, and this is just more evidence of it. Besides, she wants to pick on my character, I’ll pick on hers.

  Mudslinging. What Mary Kay does best!

• #9 unit means money // Sep 20, 2005 at 11:49 am

  Melanie: ROFLMBO! I’m glad you picked up on where I was going with that. Most people aren’t aware that 95% of people who join an MLM quit within the first year. So, there’s an endless string of people joining the MLM, finding out the truth, and leaving.

  The more we get the facts out, the more credit scores we save!

  Yeah, now we’re teamin’ up against the MLMs. It’s a conspiracy. Call us the Illuminati. I’ll just steal your thunder now, because I’m much more interested in the numbers.

• I agree // Sep 20, 2005 at 12:51 pm

  I agree with POOR you . . . also, Not Pink I don’t even understand your comment to think pink, she only posted on the 19 and then left (if you don’t remember, “that’s why this is my last post.”) What do you mean two days? Plus she’s not even here, why pick on her.

• Not Pink // Sep 20, 2005 at 1:32 pm

  Because she decided to turn this back into an emotional rage machine. And, the site owners have managed to clean up the thread. There were three instances of her post on 9/19, and another on 9/20, showing that she was refreshing the page, checking to see if anyone had responded to her post. I know the drill. I’ve seen it a gazillion times.

  So, the reason I picked on her is because all she could whine about was “how mean” some people were being. If she was truly practicing what she was preaching in that note that appeared *four times* (or was she just trying to drill home her views??) was that we shouldn’t stoop to the level of “sick of the lying pinkos.” However, just in acknowledging the behavior, and admonishing “Sick,” she stoops to that level.

  Pointing fingers is very ugly behavior. What happens the one day Think Pink slips, and says a bad word? She is condemned by her own judgement.

  Oh, and people who announce that they’re leaving rarely do.

  Get over it.

• I agree // Sep 20, 2005 at 2:47 pm

  Maybe I’m just a dumb blond but I only see her post on 9/19 no post on 9/20. Oh well. Anyways what do you mean about “clean up the thread” the car comment she talked about just happend last week?! That comment alone would have gotten that person thrown out of any message board. I’m glad she said something. Cause I wouldn’t have the guts too. What I got from her message was that she was talking and supporting her fellow consultants, not us. Anyway, I’m over this whole thing. Have a nice life.

• Amber // Sep 20, 2005 at 2:54 pm

  Melanie wrote:

  >95% of the people who come into MK are out within two years.

  Take a look at those Canadian figures.

  29,357 consultnats of which 4,533 received an average commission check of $140 in 2004.

  Whilst the figures do not state that the only people who had been in Mary Kay for more than a year were those 4,533, they do have that implication.

  You would be closer to saying that 80% are out within a year. That figure would give Mary Kay a higher retention rate than most of the MLMs out there.

  OH, and to qualify as an ND, you need a downline of at lest 4,500. Worldwide, there is only 1 ND for every 2,889 consultants, directors, and senior directors. Which begs the question of how long it takes for an ND to lose a third of their downline.

  #9 Unit Means Money wrote:

  >but why is it established that the only people “making money” in MK are at the NSD level?

  Canadian data:

  8 NDs earn more than $100,000 Canadian in commision each year.

  180 SDs earn over $15,000 Canadian each year.

  Assume a Gaussian distribution, and 110 Directors earn $30,00 Canadian or more, and 33 SDs earn $60,000 or more in commission.

  I’d list the equivelent US fgigures, but Mary Kay Corporate has decided that it would rather violate Federal Statutes, than provide them. OTOH, given taht Mary Kay Corporate is an ongoing criminal enterprise, such reluctance to provide those figures is understandable.

  >are making $30k or so, AFTER EXPENSES — that’s their Schedule C income.

  Have you examined their Schedule C, or are you accepting their claims on faith?

  If US statistical data parallels that of Canada, you might have as many as 690 senior directors who recieve $30,000 or more in commission checks each year.

  Now if you are going to claim that they get that income from retil sales, the minimum amount of retail sales they would be doing is five hundred dollars per day, or two thousand five hundred dollars per week. In other words, they should be in the National Court of Sales. Are all of those people in the National Court of Sales?

  >Now does anybody want to dispute the numbers, or just sling more mud?

  Do you have any solid, reliable numbers for Mary Kay (USA), or Mary Kay (International), or even any division of Mary Kay, other than Mary Kay (Canada)?

  Amber

  Wind under Thy Wings

• All of you MK people are liars and thieves! // Sep 20, 2005 at 5:23 pm

  Local Mary Kay director indicted for theft

  Joni Willis Bryan also indicted for fraudulent use of credit card

  By Jonathan Willis

  Regional Bureau

  RUSSELLVILLE — An area director for the Mary Kay cosmetics company has been arrested for illegally using her associates’ credit cards.

  Joni Willis Bryan, 43, of 222 Marlin Street, of Russellville, turned herself in to local authorities Monday after a grand jury indicted her on four counts of first-degree theft of property and 67 counts of fraudulent use of a credit card totaling more than $90,000.

  Bryan is charged with using the credit card numbers of four of her Mary Kay sales associates for her personal purchases.

  “(The sales associates) would give her their credit cards and evidently she would keep their number and make additional purchases,” said Captain David Hester, an investigator with the Russellville Police Department.

  Police Chief Chris Hargett said Bryan is accused of using the cards for purchases and cash withdrawals between February and August 2004. One of the charges covers a semester’s tuition at a local college while another was used to pay for building a personal Web page, Hester said.

  The sales associates were unaware of the transactions for several months because Bryan reportedly told them that the charges were placed on their accounts by mistake, Hester said.

  “She would write bad checks to cover the balance long enough for it to be cleared,” he said.

  The four victims then became responsible for the charges plus the bad check fees, he said.

  “One of the victims had to file bankruptcy because of this,” Hester said. “When you have a director working for a company with such high values and morals like Mary Kay, it is a shame that someone would take advantage of her associates like this.”

  The Franklin County District Attorney’s Office turned the case over to Colbert County authorities because of concerns raised by some of the victims.

  “Based on alleged representations made by Mrs. Bryan that she would receive favorable treatment by this office because of prior friendships with members of the office, we decided to turn this over to an independent agency,” said Franklin County District Attorney Joey Rushing.

  First-degree theft of property is a Class B felony punishable by 2-20 years in prison and a fine up to $10,000 on each count. Fraudulent use of a credit card is a Class C felony punishable by one year and one day to 10 years in prison and a fine up to $5,000 on each count.

  “I know her family personally and I really hate that she made these bad decisions that caused such pain and embarrassment,” Rushing said.

  She was transferred from Russellville City Jail to Franklin County Jail. She was released Monday on a $77,000 bond.

  A spokeswoman with Mary Kay said that the company had no comment on the matter.

  Jonathan Willis can be reached at 332-0140 or jonathan.willis@timesdaily.com.

• Duh! (Not Pink, here) // Sep 20, 2005 at 5:39 pm

  Not to steal the thunder from the silly director in Alabama, but can you people not scroll?? Here’s the quote from Think Pink, which appears — count ‘em — three times, with other posts sandwiched in between. The post on the 20th has been deleted. I already said that. That’s what’s meant by “cleaning up the thread.” If you’re going to use the technology, please learn about it.

  So, here’s the note with hidden nastiness that I took offense to:

  Think Pink says:

  All I can say is at least most of the pro MK are respectable which is more then the con MK like Sick of the lying pinkos, “I hope you die in a blazing car crash ” and all the others with crude and vulgar language. I think all of them have proved their point . . . . We don’t want to be like them . . . so why listen to them!

  Posted by: Think Pink on September 19, 2005

  Here’s my gripe: She’s basically saying, “Look at her! Look at all the mean nasty things she’s saying! Look!” She’s accusing. She’s pointing fingers. Who else does that? The Accuser — Satan. So, if she’s going to play “I’m better than you,” she had better do it right, the way *my* Sales Director taught me: Don’t engage. Just close your mouth and walk away.

  Now, back to that nasty little director in Alabama who caused at least one bankruptcy… resume reading, all.

• #9 unit means money // Sep 20, 2005 at 5:43 pm

  Amber and Melanie: You two absolutely have your heads screwed on straight! I wasn’t asking those questions because I actually believed what the Mary Kay people said. I wanted those questions out there so that someone _would_ answer logically, and you did. And then some!! These are very eye-opening numbers. I’m really glad I didn’t do any kind of “short-term sacrifice” for this kind of long-term gain!

  Rock on!

• I agree // Sep 21, 2005 at 5:17 am

  Ok whatever. i don’t really believe you because I got on this thing at 7:00am and never saw a post on 9/20 plus why wouldn’t they delete “former mk director” just doesn’t make sense (your whole theory and all) maybe think pink isn’t the liar here. Not to be mean (i could care less) but if you can assume and post it I can assume and post it. The only reason I say that is because my computer will do the samething. Really I’m not trying to be mean or start a fight. I don’t even know why your so upset about it.

• Y'all are ugly. // Sep 21, 2005 at 5:24 am

  Back to the stupid director in Alabama… that’s absolutely hideous, and a really good example of what happens in MK all the time. Proof? Oh… she is the only one who got caught? So, all you pinkos are just going to say she’s a “lone ranger” and no one else operates like that. Riiiiight. We’ve got all the proof in the world that MK is a pyramid scheme, and no amount of pointing fingers is going to make it go away.

• Not Pink // Sep 21, 2005 at 5:28 am

  Wow, you really can’t read, can you? I was _snickering_ at the fact that the multiple postings made her look like a desperate old lady. A mere side-effect to the anger over her sitting there, all judgemental, pointing fingers. And, in so doing, looking just as guilty as those she was accusing.

  Let me say it again: You don’t look all “kind and gracious” when you run around pointing out other people’s faults.

  Now, I agree with #9. Let’s get back to the facts.

• I agree // Sep 21, 2005 at 6:57 am

  I’m ready to move on too. No hard feelings. Y’all are ugly; I’m not going to say no one in MK acts like that. But MK is not the exception. In every business in the world there are people like that. And in any sales position the more you have under you the more you make. Again MK is not an exception. I’m not going to dispute the “facts” many people I know start Mary Kay for personal use only. The thought of being their own boss scares them. It takes a lot to be a successful MK consultant, one of our new NIQ’s that’s 24 decided to make this her full time profession, work at it 40+ hours a week (I’ll post her e-mail to us). But it takes a lot to be successful in anything, the difference is we are in essence in charge of our own business, which maybe harder yet I believe more enjoyable. Many people in this world are happy where they are in life. And that’s fine I’m not saying everybody should be a MK consultant, but for those of us who want more in life this is the perfect opportunity. I have seen so many wonderful things happen to people b/c of MK, it’s so much more positive then ANY of my other jobs and WAY more fulfilling. I really hurt for those of you burnt out by MK, because it has changed my friends and family’s life forever! I’m just saying it IS possible to make it successful for you, but it takes hard work, determination, someone who won’t quit despite circumstances in life and no excuses. That’s what I have found in my experience. My director was almost a National but tragedy struck all of her Directors but one. She never gave up and now (after YEARS) she has been blessed to be on track to become NSD!! We want to help her become successful. We know she’s making money off of us and I’m fine with that. She never calls us at the end of the month etc. I’d rather work for her and have her make money off of me then a jerky boss. I love my director and everyone in our unit does too. We want her to be our National. She works so hard to help us be successful (yes so she can be successful too that’s part of being in the work world) like I said I don’t mind if I only wanted success for myself I shouldn’t be in this business About MK corporate making money off of us, I’m sure glad they do Or many people wouldn’t have a job. I don’t know why people get hung up on that! Look at the job your at…do they make money off what you do. I’m sure most jobs aren’t paying you what you deserve for the work you do. MK at least doesn’t give us pay cuts or lay us off. If we are strapped for money (buy the way if you got in debt to start that’s not MK’s fault, have a few classes then purchase inventory) we can work harder and get paid for it. But the best part? Before our meetings we GET to pray. (If that offends people then MK isn’t for them) At what other place could I do that?! Maybe I have a “rare” unit but I know that can’t be true (I’ve read others here). I’m just saying not ALL of us here are horrible so please stop the anger.

• I agree // Sep 21, 2005 at 7:00 am

  NIQ’s e-mail; I Started my Mary Kay business in July of 2001 at 22 years of age. I had just graduated with my degree in Elementary Education from the University of Florida.

  Never in a million years did I ever think I would ever be a Mary Kay Sales Director. I thought Mary Kay was only for stay at homes moms and I had no idea they made the income they do!

  I was invited to a guest event and came not expecting anything!! I came late to the event and never even had a chance to try the product. The evening was so much fun!! All the red and blue jackets, the positivity, and the FREE cars is what got me!! Also the woman leading the event, she was so well put together, her hair, make-up, and the income she was making was so impressive.

  I knew as a school teacher I would never make what I was worth! So I decided to join just to make some extra money on the side. Yes, I was nervous and skeptical at the same time; however, I didn’t want to be left out!! I thought it was worth a try!!

  When I came home to tell my family after they had just spent $60,000 on my college education, you can imagine their responses! Great…. a Mary Kay consultant!!

  I knew I had to make this work. My family and friends didn’t support me at first so I had to earn my car to proof it to them that it would work!!

  So while teaching all day, tutoring after school, and planning a wedding for 300 people I started working Mary Kay. I put in 6 -8 hours a week and never missed my weekly meetings. Within 3 months I had earned my first FREE car and decided to take the cash! My fifth month in Mary Kay I made a decision to become a director to see if I could replace my teaching income. Within a month I finished D.I.Q and was a new director 6 months from joining. I decided it was easier to do it fast. ” Fast is easy, slow is never!”

  My first full year I had earned 3 cars, one of them being the “prestigous pink” Cadillac 11 months from signing my agreement!

  Six months into Directorship I decided I didn’t want to be a mediocre director, I wanted to be a TOP DIRECTOR. So what did I do?

  1. I hired an assistant 15-30 hours a week

  2. I worked this business like a full time job (40 hours a week)

  3. Built my numbers ( Swelled our unit)

  4. Worked personally ( Gold medaled every month)

  5. Had a great attitude at all times!!

  From doing these simple steps, my first year as a director, our unit achieved the $500,000 Circle of Achievement. I was the Queen of Recriting for the Emerald Seminar earning a 3 carat diamond bee, a 3 in a half carat baguette ring, a diamond watch, and a Movado watch for my husband. Not including the income that was made that year, $150,000 for the year!!

  My second year as a director, we achieved the MILLION $ CIRCLE OF EXCELLENCE!!! Our unit walked across stage and we were the #9 unit in the nation for Seminar 2004! Our unit was #2 in the Emerald division!! What a moment!!

  I had broken a record and was now the youngest MILLION $ SALES DIRECTOR!

  I earned a $5,000 bonus, a 31/2 carat swirl ring, a 2 carat bubblebee, a chance to speak in front of the entire Seminar for 15 min., a MILLION $ Weekend for my unit, and a fully expenses- paid trip to San Fransisco and Maui, Hawaii. We stayed at the Grand Wailea resort in a suite for two weeks!! The trip was priced at $20,000!! This is not including the income I made for the year, $250,000!

  My highest love check in one month was in June, $27,000 including the $5,000 bonus!!

  Mary Kay is an unbelievable company! You can change lives, be at home with the ones you love, and still make an Executive Income!! I know it has only begun for me and my husband, Karl!

  Today we have 7 first line and 3 second line with 9 D.I.Q’S in our future National area!! Our goal is to go into N.I.Q. May 1, 2005 and to debut on-stage as a MILLION $ NATIONAL AREA SEMINAR 2006!! We will do it with God as our partner!!

  You can all be a top sales director. Put in the work today!! Work personally and have a great attitude and you will succeed!!

  Love and Beelief-

  Dacia

• MidWestern Woman // Sep 21, 2005 at 8:12 am

  Dacia, would you post your Schedule C for us to look at?

• Melanie // Sep 21, 2005 at 8:46 am

  I love it when people justify the dirt done by 90% of the sales directors by saying that every business has problems! What a way to ignore the problem!

• Yogi Mama // Sep 21, 2005 at 9:14 am

  Hmmm…Dacia is in Greece with the Top Director trip. Wonder which one of her Kaybot clones are posting in her name??

  Hmmm…interesting. Directors DON’T ever share their financial info because then the world would know they are LYING.

• Not convinced // Sep 21, 2005 at 9:50 am

  I agree wrote:

  MK at least doesn’t give us pay cuts or lay us off. If we are strapped for money (buy the way if you got in debt to start that’s not MK’s fault, have a few classes then purchase inventory) we can work harder and get paid for it. But the best part? Before our meetings we GET to pray. >>>>>

  Oh puhlease. As if no one in the world but MK people get to pray??!! Get real. Your elitist attitude really stinks and turns off the women of the world to MK!

  Regarding your “MK doesn’t lay people off” - DUH, what’d they do to Claudia? What do they do to directors who miss 2 consecutive months of production? They rob them of their units. Perhaps you don’t see a “demotion” as a layoff, but at least in the j.o.b world, people get benefits for being unemployed. And, I always chuckle at the dismissal of regular jobs by MK reps. What do you call what you do? Isn’t it a J.O.B?

• Not brainwashed // Sep 21, 2005 at 10:46 am

  Brainwashing. For those of you who can’t see it when it hits you right on the lipstick.

• chillin // Sep 21, 2005 at 10:48 am

  Nope..no one ever wants to TALK TURKEY!!! God forbid we talk about actual facts.

  And yes, someone is posting in Dacia’s name. At least she was kind enough to clean up most (not all) of Dacia’s grammar and spelling problems. How embarassing for the big “executive” Dacia.

  Like, YAY, Mary Kay!!!!

• Yogi Mama // Sep 21, 2005 at 10:49 am

  Janet, you obviously are not working your business hard enough if you have time like that to waste here.

• chillin // Sep 21, 2005 at 10:50 am

  Janet Byers has that whole cult thing down pat!!!

  (We may need to perform an exorcism.)

• Really tired of the pink lies // Sep 21, 2005 at 10:56 am

  So, MK is really number 1, huh? I THINK NOT.

  http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:ajifY3xli0EJ:www.wwd.com/related/article/101272+top+10+unit+mary+kay+cosmetics&hl=en&client=firefox-a

• Really Tired of the pink lies // Sep 21, 2005 at 10:59 am

  according to Womens Wear Daily MK ranked #18. Lancome and Avon are bigger sellers than pukey MK.

  Go Womens Wear! Truth is golden!

• chillin // Sep 21, 2005 at 11:03 am

  I believe it’s “pukie”. And I think that’s a generous way to describe the dime-store products that MK puts out.
  

• Really tired of the pink liars // Sep 21, 2005 at 11:06 am

  Pukin’ on MK..Pukin’ on MK

• BEST SELLING BRAND? NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! // Sep 21, 2005 at 11:20 am

  RANK COMPANY 2003 REVENUES

  (IN $ MILLIONS)

  1 PROCTER & GAMBLE CO. 12,145.6

  CINCINNATI, OHIO

  2 UNILEVER PLC 7,403.2

  LONDON, U.K.

  3 JOHNSON & JOHNSON 6,928.0

  NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J.

  4 COLGATE PALMOLIVE CO. 5,743.7

  NEW YORK, N.Y.

  5 ESTEE LAUDER COMPANIES INC. (THE) 5,117.0

  NEW YORK, N.Y.

  6 AVON PRODUCTS INC. 4,488.0

  NEW YORK, N.Y.

  7 WELLA CORP. 4,156.7

  GERMANY / WOODLAND HILLS, CALIF

  8 BEIERSDORF AG 3,930.0

  GERMANY

  9 L’OREAL USA 3,800.0

  NEW YORK, N.Y.

  10 GILLETTE CO. (THE) 3,368.0

  BOSTON, MASS.

  11 LVMH MOET HENNESSY LOUIS VUITTON SA 2,702.6 *

  PARIS, FRANCE / NEW YORK, N.Y.

  12 GLAXOSMITHKLINE PLC 1,911.9

  LONDON, U.K. / PHILADELPHIA, PA.

  13 MARY KAY INC. 1,800.0

  ADDISON, TEXAS

  14 COTY INC. 1,650.0 *

  NEW YORK, N.Y.

  15 REVLON INC. 1,299.3

  NEW YORK, N.Y.

  16 ALBERTO-CULVER CO. 983.1

  MELROSE PARK, ILL.

  17 PFIZER INC. 917.0

  NEW YORK, N.Y.

  18 ELIZABETH ARDEN INC. 752.0

  MIAMI LAKES, FLA.

  19 CHURCH & DWIGHT CO. INC. 560.2

  PRINCETON, N.J.

  20 NEUTROGENA CORP. 503.0

  LOS ANGELES, CALIF.

  21 ROHTO PHARMACEUTICAL CO. LTD. 462.1

  OSAKA, JAPAN

  22 ANDREW JERGENS CO. (THE) 433.2 *

  CINCINNATI, OHIO

  23 DIAL CORP. (THE) 416.9

  SCOTTSDALE, ARIZ.

  24 SCHERING-PLOUGH CORP. 402.0

  KENILWORTH. N.J.

  25 DEL LABS 310.4

  UNIONDALE, N.Y.

• Pat Dodson // Sep 21, 2005 at 12:10 pm

  We are listed on the 100 Best Companies to work for in America and 10 Best Companies for women to work for in America — the only direct seller and the only cosmetic company on the best list.

  Ours is the best-selling brand of FACIAL SKIN CARE and color cosmetics in the U.S. (based on most recent industry data and actual sales! Go back and do your research Honey!

• Janet Byers // Sep 21, 2005 at 12:14 pm

  WE SAID ITS NUMBER 1 BEST SELLING SKIN CARE…NOT PRODUCT…SKIN CARE…OUT OF ALL THE REST OF THE SKIN CARE PRODUCTS OUT THERE. SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST IDIOTS…DOING RESEARCH AND DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY’RE LOOKING FOR…AND WE SAID IN AMERICA…NOT JAPAN OR CHINA OR LONDON, PARIS AND GERMANY. SKIN CARE..SKIN CARE…GO BACK AND LOOK UP AMERICA’S BEST SELLING SKIN CARE!!!! IDIOT

• Truth // Sep 21, 2005 at 12:26 pm

  Estee Lauder: Skin care and cosmetics, also ranking AHEAD of MK.

  There is _no_ list that puts MK at the top of _any_ category. Just MK’s own imagination.

• Not Pink // Sep 21, 2005 at 12:27 pm

  Where is the research report that ranks MK as number one?? I asked for three years, and never got one shred of evidence from Corporate.

• More rankings // Sep 21, 2005 at 12:37 pm

  Ms. Dodson: Those rankings of best companies to work for refer to working as an EMPLOYEE, as in at the manufacturing plant or at headquarters, NOT being a consultant!! But, yet, those “leadership” folks sure like to state that fact, then say no more, so they can’t be accused of leading you astray. But, yet, they have because they said it in a context that is construed to mean what you thought it meant. And it’s incorrect. It’s deception.

• Tired of the pink LIARS // Sep 21, 2005 at 12:53 pm

  I may be an idiot, but you are a BIOTCH. No wonder MK has a bad rep. Stalker, liar, BIOTCH.

• I agree // Sep 21, 2005 at 1:07 pm

  Whhoooaaa ya’ll are crazy. I was never trying to post as Dacia, I mearly stated in the previous post, “one of our new NIQ’s that’s 24 decided to make this her full time profession, work at it 40+ hours a week (I’ll post her e-mail to us).” and then posted, “NIQ’s Email” under my name. Why all the rage?

• I agree // Sep 21, 2005 at 1:37 pm

  Not convinced, I never said we are the only ones who get to pray, I’ve never worked anywhere that starts off the meeting in prayer. In fact if I even mention the word I would probably get fired. My point, this company was founded on, God first, where as others prohibit even mentioning His name.

  About layoffs, they are usually because of corporate reorganization or lack of funds that’s not the case with Claudia she LOST her job due to not working I just think it’s crazy in today’s society that we think we need to get everything handed to us and if we step out on a limb an fall it HAS to be somebody else’s fault . . . The mystery of iniquity. She is an independent contractor, not having benefits may be a down fall, but we choose freedom instead of benefits. As with any entrepreneur that stared a business, if you stop working you stop getting paid. I know it’s not for everyone. Some people would rather get paid and have someone else give them their schedule. That’s fine. But a lot of us don’t. If you want to make it to the top so you CAN get benefits (which by the way NSD’s get a wonderful retirement package!) you have to work long and hard.

  I don’t know what Claudia’s team was like but one of the ladies in our unit had breast cancer as well but never stopped working or lost her team. She was working in the midst of Chemo. It depends on the person I guess.

• Foo // Sep 21, 2005 at 1:57 pm

  I agree: This statement is confusing: “Not convinced, I never said we are the only ones who get to pray, I’ve never worked anywhere that starts off the meeting in prayer. In fact if I even mention the word I would probably get fired. My point, this company was founded on, God first, where as others prohibit even mentioning His name.”

  You’re arguing in circles. I have had multiple jobs where we started meetings praying. If the stockholders found out, there might have been a stink, but we never got fired. You see, we never _boasted_ about our prayer. We did it out of reverence for God, not for recognition. And, because _you_ have never worked somewhere where you could pray, you act as if that’s a big thing in this world. So, yes, you _are_ suggesting an argument that runs along the line of “MK is the only place where I can pray before a meeting.”

  You’re just talking in circles.

• SLCP // Sep 21, 2005 at 2:11 pm

  Just think for one moment people, how God feels about all the nastiness going on here. I’m not a “working Consultant”, but if people want to be, don’t criticize them for it, and just becuause you had a bad experience does not mean that everyone who joins will have a bad experience. In fact, if your smart enough, before you make a decision you may regret, why don’t you put your trust in God and pray to him to see what he wants you to do instead of jumping into something, having a bad experience, then trash talking eveyone who does it or anything it stands for? Especially the Company itself. Unless you knew Mary Kay Ash herself personally, and conversed with her about why she started this company and how it’s supposed to be ran (how she intended it to be ran) then I suggest you keep your mouths shut about how “bad” the company is, just because PEOPLE corrupt and make something bad (as they have to society, not just this business), does not mean that a company was not founded on certain principles and meant to be ran a certain way. Don’t blame God for people being corrupt.

  I don’t sell because I don’t want to. I don’t get into debt because I don’t want to. I make my own choices. If you feel that your director/recruiter/the company made you get into debt, well then you must really not be in control of your own thoughts and well being. Maybe you should re evaluate how you let others “control” you. If you don’t feel good about the company, get out, but don’t ruin it for others out there who are getting something from it. Just because you didn’t get what you thought you would from it…or let yourself be led to think you’d get from it, doesn’t mean it’s doing notheing for others. My suggestion for you is that the next time you go into something like this, go in without expectations, and don’t let others depict the pace you go and what you purchase, then you won’t get your poor feelings hurt so bad. What a terrible thing if you feel you need counceling because this business hurt you so bad, and that you need a support group. If you’d joined the company for the right reasons in the first place, which were God first, Family second, and Career third, you would’ve relied on God more, and you wouldn’t need a support group from someone else now. I find this all rather amusing. and sad.

• Hey SLCP.... // Sep 21, 2005 at 2:34 pm

  Why don’t you try spell check and grammar check. You sound rather ignorant.

• I agree // Sep 21, 2005 at 3:46 pm

  SLCP, That was beautiful, truthful but not arrogant (all at the same time). She’s right, it’s about time WE take the blame for our own actions, not just people on this page but America. People please don’t ruin it . . . she’s only speaking the truth not picking on anyone about their spelling. You never know, she maybe feeding her baby in one arm, on the phone with the other and typing in between!

• I forgot // Sep 21, 2005 at 6:35 pm

  Oops I forgot…poor spelling and grammar are a prerequisite for beng in deep w/ MK. There I go with the big words again!

• It won't take long // Sep 21, 2005 at 7:28 pm

  What about this “Company” I keep reading of. Some of you are so Loyal to it and stick up for it as I would a family member. Then I hear people say they are part of the company although from what I can tell you just buy products from it to resell. I’ve heard of brand loyalty but “I worship my wholesaler” seems a bit much. What if they change the products on you or hike the prices? Companies are in it looking to make money, they are not your friend.

• foo // Sep 22, 2005 at 2:17 am

  SLCP sounds like one of those that needs to read directly from the Dead Sea Scrolls in order to figure out how Jesus wanted his church _really_ to be run (”Unless you’ve conversed directly…”). (DCSs are _copies_, anyway! You’d need to actually walk along the road _with_ Jesus to get to SLCP’s point!) It’s obvious that the day has passed for this company, and that the die-hards should learn to move on.

  Indeed, fighting to the death over this company is insane. People who were burned are in the thousands. This isn’t something that is dismissable by “a few good women.” Let it go. Stick a fork in it, it’s done! (”The Opportunity,” that is.)

• I agree // Sep 22, 2005 at 5:33 am

  say. She’s right!

  If you can’t understand unless you, “actually walk along the road _with_ Jesus” then you should be walking about two inches from Him you’ll never regret it! There is nothing wrong with seeking God’s will for everything (including MK) for your life. In fact there is everything right about that. It shows that she is a smart woman.

  About the thousands MK burned (I really have never heard a story yet that wasn’t because of the consultants irresponsibility, if anyone knows one let me know), what about the tens of thousands that’s lives have been enriched (for every national there is at least 550 or so active consultants) people shouldn’t try to bring MK down because of the minority. Not to mention woman who aren’t even consultants. When I facial a woman and at the end she starts crying saying no one has ever made her feel beautiful before, (even if she doesn’t buy any product) that’s what it’s all about, women seeing both their inner and outer beauty. Even the people who are nasty on this thing, you have it hidden deep inside too. Maybe they have had a rough life who knows what the source of the anger is from but I know you all have it somewhere.

  Loves and Kisses,

  I agree

• I agree // Sep 22, 2005 at 5:37 am

  Oooppppss!!! I cut off the Beginning!

  Is there something wrong with SLCP’s devotion to God? I think people should listen to what she has to say. She’s right!

  If you can’t understand unless you, “actually walk along the road _with_ Jesus” then you should be walking about two inches from Him you’ll never regret it! There is nothing wrong with seeking God’s will for everything (including MK) for your life. In fact there is everything right about that. It shows that she is a smart woman.

  About the thousands MK burned (I really have never heard a story yet that wasn’t because of the consultants irresponsibility, if anyone knows one let me know), what about the tens of thousands that’s lives have been enriched (for every national there is at least 550 or so active consultants) people shouldn’t try to bring MK down because of the minority. Not to mention woman who aren’t even consultants. When I facial a woman and at the end she starts crying saying no one has ever made her feel beautiful before, (even if she doesn’t buy any product) that’s what it’s all about, women seeing both their inner and outer beauty. Even the people who are nasty on this thing, you have it hidden deep inside too. Maybe they have had a rough life who knows what the source of the anger is from but I know you all have it somewhere.

  Loves and Kisses,

  Angel

• Consultant's Irresponsibility? // Sep 22, 2005 at 7:13 am

  You haven’t seen/heard the thousands and thousands of failure stories because (as you see here) the pinkos won’t have it! They do not let those stories be told. If they let them be told, you would see that it’s a failure of the system that is to blame. MLM is not designed for success, except for those at the top.

  Directly from MK Corporate: 85% of consultants have been in the company for LESS THAN 1 year. What does that tell you?

  (Yes, ladies I realize that I’m asking some Kaybots to use some critical thinking skills which ain’t likely to happen.)

• foo // Sep 22, 2005 at 7:15 am

  I’m borrowing from another wise woman. These are not my words, so don’t go jumping over to LJ and pouncing on _her_.

  Here it is:

  http://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/10lies.html

  http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/resources/tenlies.html

  http://www.falseprofits.com/Nonretail.html

  http://skepdic.com/mlmhar.html

  http://www.marketwaveinc.com/articles/MLMNameGame.asp

  http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2005/08/kudos-to-brian-headd.html

  Just for fun: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0UQX/is_7_68/ai_n6160853

  http://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/mlmlies.html

  Now your turn…show me some cold hard statistics that MK is the #1 selling brand in the US, your schedule C, and actual sales NOT orders. Show me where more than 1% of ALL consultants suceed in MK. Tell me how many have been recruited into your unit, how many are T status or I status, and long they actually stay in the unit. How many can you name that have been there longer than 1 yr, 5 yrs, and 10 yrs. Yanno, cold hard figures.

• Wondering // Sep 23, 2005 at 5:02 am

  banned? people have been banned? wow. sick of the topic, eh? or is it the Pink Illuminatti, working behind the scenes to squelch the truth?

• LMG // Sep 23, 2005 at 10:55 am

  Wow! Emotional thread!

• foo // Sep 24, 2005 at 7:21 pm

  Yeah, finally looks like it’s going to die off. Good riddance.

• Still Waiting // Sep 24, 2005 at 8:46 pm

  Yup…still waiting for Christina to talk more smack. Questions have been asked. Are you woman enough to answer them???

• Wanna Know // Sep 25, 2005 at 2:07 pm

  Anyone else dying to know who Foo is???

• Foo // Sep 25, 2005 at 6:51 pm

  Hey, Wanna Know, why so curious? =P

  Looks like Christina and all the other Pinkos have learned their lesson. MK is MLM, and MLM is bad. Don’t drink the Kool-Aid.

• Wanna Know // Sep 25, 2005 at 9:10 pm

  Well, Foo, it’s just in my nature I guess.

  I was SURE that Christina would be here tonight. You know how Sunday night is stalker night on the telephone for the kaybots, so I was sure she’d peek at this thread too!

• Foo // Sep 26, 2005 at 10:42 am

  Wanna Know, you already know too much! Stalker Night!!! Absolutely brilliant! =]

• Brandy ..the fine one // Sep 26, 2005 at 9:00 pm

  Hey Christina!

  Where did you go? You big chicken. When the burner gets hot under you you run for cover.

  I wish the hurricane had come and washed out you and your home and your MK products.

• Peggy // Sep 29, 2005 at 1:01 pm

  I was a member of the mary kay cult for several years before realizing what an evil thing it is.It was about to cause me to lose my husband and family. I was $60,000.00 in debt and so depressed I was ready to die. My Mother taught me not to lie or stealn ever. But guess what one of the first things is that you are taught in your Mary Kay training? Whatever anyone ask you about your Mary Kay business answer them with something wonderful and keep smiling while you are doing it. Not only are you lying but smiling while you are doing it. I wonder what God thinks about that.

• Peggy // Sep 29, 2005 at 1:04 pm

  I was a member of the mary kay cult for several years before realizing what an evil thing it is.It was about to cause me to lose my husband and family. I was $60,000.00 in debt and so depressed I was ready to die. My Mother taught me not to lie or stealn ever. But guess what one of the first things is that you are taught in your Mary Kay training? Whatever anyone ask you about your Mary Kay business answer them with something wonderful and keep smiling while you are doing it. Not only are you lying but smiling while you are doing it. I wonder what God thinks about that.

• Not Foo // Sep 29, 2005 at 5:32 pm

  http://www.thepinkingshears.org

• Not Foo // Sep 30, 2005 at 9:13 pm

  Now that’s the positive Mary Kay spirit that we all love!!!

• also not foo // Oct 1, 2005 at 12:15 pm

  Jacie Lys, way to demonstrate that “go give spirit”. I can feel the love and compassion in every word of your post. If your viscious, cruel rant is indicative of MK success, I’d rather be a failure.

• Happy_MK_Girl // Oct 1, 2005 at 11:01 pm

  Wow, there are a lot of angry people on here. I have been with MK for 2 years now and I love it. As for all the hype about directors pressuring consultants and lawsuits and such, you are all generalizing a bit don’t you think? In any company this large there are going to be many different people. Yes there will be directors who are greedy, and pushy and some that are only out for themselves…Just like the CEOs of many companies. I have a wonderful director who is not pushy and always there when you need her. I sought out a recruiter because I love sales and meeting new people. That is what it is about for me. Any home business is going to require the same things that have been berated here…building a client base, inventory, meeting new people and yes, some work. I am not stupid…I am a BA student at University majoring in English. I have a wonderful and supportive husband who encourages me with my business. I am not brainwashed, I see MaryKay as what it is. An opportunity, not a get rich quick scheme. I honestly am sad that woman got cancer…but if you worked at any other office they would not pay you when you were not working. Whether that is morally right or wrong that is the reality. So many people’s lives have been affected by cancer…should all of those people get a free ride too? We are not talking about a few month’s compensation here…it was millions. Millions of dollars paid by the company because she could no longer work due to an illness. I don’t even get paid sickdays! All of those people calling us “Pinkos” and other prejudiced names (yes, prejudice is hatred towards a certain group, not just an ethnicity) need to back off. Hate the products, don’t be interested in buying anything or becoming consultants. That is your own choice. But there is no reason to start berating and belittling people who enjoy their work and enjoy meeting new people through MaryKay. You can’t judge us all through the actions of some. I do cold call and warm chatter…because I enjoy talking to people. It is up to the individual to know when someone is not receptive and leave them alone. That is not a company mentality. It is the same as the perfume vendors in a department store…asking never hurts. As for the continued mentions of MaryKay Ash as rotting, etc….have some respect for the dead. You don’t know her and so have no right to suppose anything about her. She was trying to do a good thing for women…create a company in which there was no glass ceiling. Whether or not you think she succeeded, and whether or not you like MaryKay as a company that does not give you the right to disrespect someone who meant to do something good..especially someone who has passed on. I also don’t like reading that some stranger out there wants me dead because I am affiliated with a company they don’t like. Grow up. Direct your insults to the people who have wronged you…not a general group like us consultants. Many of us are not greedy, false, brainwashed or just out to get to the top and we should not have to be insulted like that.

• Missy // Oct 2, 2005 at 7:31 am

  Whoa!! Laughing hard. All you Mary Kay Bashers need a life. I just found this site by accident- apparently a bad accident! I am willing to bet you losers who failed at Mary Kay are Democrats, your whining sounds just like them. Before anyone calls me a kaybot, I am not a consultant, just a customer. My consultant is very successful and has a (gasp!) Pink Cadillac. She is very nice, loved in our community and is always at the school with her kids. She talked to me before about the opporunity and it sounds great, just not for me right now. She did tell me that as a new consultant working her way to the Pink Cadillac she put in a lot of hours and made some temporary sacrifices and that is what makes it worth it now. The hatred spewed here by you non Mary Kay people is truly pathetic. Maybe you should get off the computer and go get a life. If only you had put this much energy into your home business!! What a bunch of whiners. And oh, the vile hate speech is coming from the non Mary Kay folks by a high majority. I don’t blame the consultants here for trying to defend themselves and their company to vile hateful people like you. Another big clue that you are whining Democrats. Attitude reveals all! Go get a life!!

• Missy is gullible // Oct 2, 2005 at 8:59 am

  So you believe everything your little MK rep tells you??? You have no idea that she is probably paying for that cadillac every month. You are the type of person that she would loooove to get her hands on. Blind faith. It’s a pyramid scheme. What’s so hard to understand about that?

• Missy- I was right // Oct 2, 2005 at 10:16 am

  I came back here just for giggles to see if I was right. I knew some loser would attack my intelligence. So “Missy is Gullible” answer the question- are you a Democrat? Did you vote for Kerry? LOL Good grief. I highly doubt my consultant is “paying” for the Cadillac, it is her 3rd one if I remember correctly. She has a beautiful home, her husband works for her so he has no income. I think it is safe to say she makes pretty dang good money. Look, if you don’t like the company that is fine, but quit acting like a dang socialist who hates prosperity and profit. If you want socialism move to Cuba. Like I said before. Get a life! Your words are so ugly, I can’t imagine what your outsides look like. Good luck succeeding at anything in life. HA!

• Missy is gullible // Oct 2, 2005 at 12:19 pm

  Sorry to dissapoint, but am a well-to-do Republican. I’m not a MK loser, I’m a very successful business owner. Unlike the 99% of MK reps who lose money.

• Y'all need to get a life // Oct 2, 2005 at 9:13 pm

  Hey Missy~

  Do you have a website? I would love to order from you if you are a real working MK consultant.

• Y'all need to get a life // Oct 2, 2005 at 9:16 pm

  Sorry, Missy..I meant the happy MK girl..

  Happy..do you have a website??

• MKay Director // Oct 4, 2005 at 5:38 am

  I have been in Mary Kay only since January of this year. I am currently a Mary Kay Director and loving it! There are not many companies that trully care about their working crew. Although we are all independently responsible for our own businesses, the company still looks out for the consultants in many ways that not even companies with true “employees” do. The bonus compensations are unbelievable, but you do have to work. There is nowhere where you will see that it says “Mary Kay is Easy!!” It’s not easy, but having, and running your own business never is. There is a LOT of work involved, and if you look into it like you would any other business prior to investing in it, this can readily be seen.

  I have been in business for myself befor and did quite well, but find that this company offers many other things that I not only enjoy, but repect. No brainwashing, no hard handed pressure, simply hard work and lots of compensation. We could go on and on about what Mary Kay (the company) may or may not do because we all have our opinions, and there is a lot out there about the pros and cons. We can choose to believe whichever side we want. I so far am a believer that it works. Personally I want to thank them. I am happy with the company and will be with them for a long, long time.

• Until MKDirector loses her unit.... // Oct 4, 2005 at 6:43 am

  You’re brainwashed too. The high-pressure tactics are all over this business. If you don’t use them, you simply don’t make any money. The vast majority of sales directors are making less than $20,000 per year. THat’s not much of a living, if you ask me. (And lots of them actually LOSE money.)

• I am Foo // Oct 4, 2005 at 11:41 am

  Who are you all trying to convince? The audience has reduced to people who already _have_ an opinion about MK, and you’re not going to change it by posting here.

  The sick fact is that just the very existence of this discussion points to failures within the Mary Kay structure. Why on earth would anyone want to be involved in such a “wedge” concept? If you haven’t joined Mary Kay as a consultant, please know that you’ll be facing a lot of this kind of talk… defending yourself at every turn… people buying from you because they “want to help you out”… lots of loving kindness that pops like a thin balloon.

  Mary Kay has done an excellent job of quelling the story of those “other 99%” that don’t make millions. One or two happy MK people showing up to tell others to “get a life” is doing nothing for the cause. Take a step back and look at what you’re all saying.

  Mary Kay is the best thing on earth. Mary Kay is evil. It is neither. It _is_ an approach to marketing who’s time has long since past.

  Tell me this, Mary Kay ladies: How many of your customers _prefer_ to call you, wait for you to return the call, set an appointment, be shown a plethora of other products, just to get a new mascara or cleanser?

  The point that Mary Kay is missing is that people have long since migrated to shopping on the web, shopping anonymously, heck, even shopping through QVC. The model worked in the 60’s and 70’s. It doesn’t work anymore. That’s why it’s so _hard_ to “work this business” these days.

  It’s a market shift. Open your eyes.

• Me@Japan // Oct 5, 2005 at 11:52 pm

  Hey, ladies!

  As there are so many MK directors here, maybe it is not hard for you to answer my question?

  You all know (propably), that MK products are known not only in US. I am currently in Japan with my wife, and will stay here for rather long. She had worked as MKay IBC at home (Russia) before we leave. She would like to continue here with Mary Kay. So, my question is:

  HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO TRANSFER A MK CONTRACT TO OTHER COUNTRY?

  Or,

  Are there any English-speaking MK Independent Beauty Consultants located in Japan?

  Headquarters? Affiliates?

  Google search did not reveal much. Our local (Russian) leaders also know nothing. So maybe you have ideas?

  I’ll be checking this board time to time. But would be great if you mail me directly to spam(two)stop(at)yahoo(dot)com, replacing (characters) as needed
  Cheers,

  Serge

• gogreen // Oct 7, 2005 at 10:42 am

  I have been following this discussion for a while now simply out of curiosity. I am appalled by MK’s actions in regards to terminating the “independent contractor” with breast cancer. It is so ironic due to the fact that MK has promoted itself as a supporter of BC research and of women’s issues. Their motto is something about enriching women’s lives.

  I do not sell MK, I do not use MK, yes, I have been approached by women who sell it wanting me to buy it, join the sales force, etc. I have tried some of their products by samples given to me, but their products aren’t for me. I am not interested and I tell them that up front. Some can be rather annoying, others not at all. It doesn’t matter what facet of life you are living, you have to have some backbone and “just say no.”

  If these ladies want to sell MK, let them. They’re not bothering anyone who doesn’t want to be bothered and who has enough backbone to say so. If selling MK works for them, more power to them. I’m sure many other women with serious health issues have been terminated from other corporations due to inabilty to produce directly attributable to their illness.

  In my very humble opinion, MK doesn’t really care about providing ongoing customer service, great makeup, etc. to its customers, it simply wants to amass a huge sales force that must purchase and try to sell its products. I have tried them. They are no better than the average drug store varieties and certainly not of the quality of most of the luxury brands sold at department stores. They are not worth the price they ask for them, but honestly, how many cosmetic products are? I believe someone hit the nail on the head by saying, if the product is so great, why does MK have to put so much effort into having people push it. Sure, advertising is a great influence in the cosmetics industry. We as women especially aspire to look younger, more beautiful, etc. However, I am sure a great deal of cosmetics are sold by word of mouth as well. If Clinique or Revlon, comes out with a great product, I am more likely to hear about it from another woman than see it in an advertisement. That’s the way it works . . .women talk to other women. I teach in a high school. You should have heard the talk last spring amoung the young women about the new Jergins skin lotion that gives the skin a glow to it. It hadn’t even been advertised nationally, and the stores in our area couldn’t keep in in stock. Young women were driving 60 miles or more to purchase it prior to prom.

  I have never heard anyone say anything great about Mary Kay products, except the women trying to sell it.

  I have never specifically sought out a MK product because I have heard other women talk about how wonderful it is. I have done that with other cosmetic lines, ranging from Lancome to Cover Girl. If MK had really great products and didn’t have to try to sell to the captive audience of its consultants, it would probably be available in stores. They promote the idea that their sales techniques are more convienent for women with busy lives. Who has time to call a MK consultant, play phone tag for several days, make an appointment, arrange your schedule to meet up to make the purchse, all to purchase a tube of lipstick? Hey, I would rather run to the mall or if I don’t have time for that, I’ll grab a tube of lipstick at the grocery store, it’s not like it’s a one of a kind lifesaving medication.

  After reading so much on both sides of this issue, I plan to stay away from MK ladies. I have better things to spend my time on than makeup.

  I cannot belive that some of the participants of this conversation are so militantly pro or con MK. Come on . . . its makeup, not US foreign policy.

• Not bothering anyone??? // Oct 7, 2005 at 3:05 pm

  You think MK’s not bothering anyone? Apparently you’ve never heard their training regarding “no doesn’t really mean no…it just means I need more information”.

• withheld // Oct 10, 2005 at 4:55 am

  I chose to sell MK because I really love the product. I mean really. I think a lot of the motivators they use are weird, in fact I don’t always agree with the MK mantra but I LOVE the products. Love. I totally see why some people think it’s “cultish” but you have to decide how much of it you are going to buy into.

  I am glad this woman was compensated-if she was sick then her quotas should have been suspended until such a time that she was well enough to continue managing her sales force.

  There are some amazingly stupid statements on here. You can believe in something yet still retain your own opinion.

• Jen Semelsberger // Oct 12, 2005 at 9:31 am

  You need to stop putting things in our guest book and grow up!!! Just because MK didn’t work for you doesn’t mean that it doesn’t work for everyone else.

  Jen Semelsberger

  Independent Sales Director

  (301) 922-7038 or (301) 912-5553

  http://www.marykay.com/jensemelsberger

  http://www.unitnet.com/jensemelsberger

• Jodi Even // Oct 12, 2005 at 9:34 am

  Laura, QUIT emailing us…so sorry you do “get it” but you dont have to expose your nasty website http://www.thepinkingshears.org to my people who do…. I would appreciate you not signing in AT ALL anymore. Jodi Even

• Laura Boone // Oct 12, 2005 at 9:36 am

  Hmm..your MK Sales directors are quite nasty. Hmm..and this is the representation of the great and mighty Mary Kay Ash? I thing that ALL Mk ladies need to get real and grow up.

• not brainwashed // Oct 12, 2005 at 12:30 pm

  oooooooh-kaaaay! Something’s going on that someone doesn’t really want to talk about for real. Just confront “Laura” directly, and leave the rest of us out of it.

  Why are you so afraid of your brainwashed minions hearing about the truth?

  And, yes, I’ve seen some pretty nasty responses from the MK “leadership.” Obviously they know how to put a guest book out there, but don’t know how to use it. Instead, they just try to make “Laura” look bad. Nice.

  I’m running right off to sign my agreement. NOT!

• You are fools // Oct 12, 2005 at 7:17 pm

  Jen and Jodi….

  Laura has not ever posted anything in your guestbooks so get over it. You’re so desperate that the word doesn’t get out…aren’t you??? Afraid that your scam will be over? How do you even sleep at night after conning women into a bogus opportunity that is nothing more than a high-priced pyramid scheme? You two need to get a conscience and quit screwing people for a living!

• gogreen // Oct 14, 2005 at 8:22 am

  In response to Not Bothering Anyone, if you are so worked up about Mary Kay ladies bothering you, you must be letting them bother you. I have a neighbor who sells Mary Kay and is constantly trying to get an “in” with me to try her products. When she asks, “I say’no.’” Nothing else. I don’t give her a chance to go any further with her sales pitch. The MK ladies have been taught lines to refute any excuse; therefore, no excuse, no line. It is actully pretty funny to watch her try to figure out what to do. Another observation that I have noticed is that people who work for direct marketing companies all “help” each other out. The MK ladies host Pampered Chef parties, the Pampered Chef ladies host Home Interiors parties, and on and on and on. I guess what it boils down to is a bunch people trying to sell junk that no one wants to a bunch of other people trying to sell other junk to people no one wants. It’s all pretty funny when you think about it. I can’t believe how malicious this group is on this discussion, both sides. I don’t remember how I stumbled on to this site, but I keep chuckling to myself about how shallow it is that so many people are so concerned about makeup and what someome else is doing. I think the majority of you need to get a sense of humor and a life. Signing off for good. I don’t need this negativity. Thanks for the laughs.

• gogreen // Oct 14, 2005 at 8:29 am

  In response to Not Bothering Anyone, if you are so worked up about Mary Kay ladies bothering you, you must be letting them bother you. I have a neighbor who sells Mary Kay and is constantly trying to get an “in” with me to try her products. When she asks, “I say’no.’” Nothing else. I don’t give her a chance to go any further with her sales pitch. The MK ladies have been taught lines to refute any excuse, everyone knows that; therefore, no excuse, no line. It is actully pretty funny to watch her try to figure out what to do.

  Another observation that I have noticed is that people who work for direct marketing companies all “help” each other out. The MK ladies host Pampered Chef parties, the Pampered Chef ladies host Home Interiors parties, and on and on and on. I guess what it boils down to is a bunch people trying to sell junk that no one wants to a bunch of other people trying to sell other junk to people no one wants. It’s all pretty funny when you think about it. It’s all in hopes of making a sales quota and increasing their pool of potential clients. Isn’t this what some in the corporate world would call “networking?”

  I can’t believe how malicious this group is on this discussion, both sides. I don’t remember how I stumbled on to this site, but I keep chuckling to myself about how shallow it is that so many people are so concerned about makeup and what someome else is doing. I think the majority of you need to get a sense of humor and a life. This type of meaness on the part of both sides would turn off anyone who ever had any inkling of becoming a Mary Kay consultant or customer. Get some class Mary Kay ladies! You all might look poised and polished, but underneath you’re certainly lacking in tact and class. I’ll spend my money somewhere else. Thanks for the laughs.

• not stereotyped // Oct 16, 2005 at 3:13 pm

  Missy says:

  Another big clue that you are whining Democrats.

  Not stereotyped says: Now THIS is a hilarious statement. I don’t think there are “party” lines in MK and I am another proud Republican and a born again Christian. And, according to MK reps, a loser, a whiner, a quitter and now, a DEMOCRAT! Good grief. If YOU are a republican, I might change.

• Jacie Wetuski // Oct 25, 2005 at 6:21 am

  The Bottom Line

  FACE IT. Nobody owes you a living, what you achieve or fail to achieve in your lifetime is directly related to what you do or fail to do. No one chooses his parents or childhood but you can choose your own direction. Everyone has problems and obstacles to overcome but that too is relative to each individual.

  NOTHING IS CARVED IN STONE. You can change anything in your life, if you want to badly enough. Excuses are for losers: those who take responsibility for their actions are the real winners in life. Winners meet life challenges head on, knowing there are no guarantees, and give it all they’ve got. And never think it’s too late or too early to begin, time plays no favorites and will pass whether you act or not.

  TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE. Dare to dream and take risks…Compete. If you aren’t willing to work for your goals don’t expect others to.

• Foo // Oct 25, 2005 at 7:25 am

  Here we go again, calling people losers. And it’s MARY KAY people calling names!! Don’t try to tell me that the people against MK are being brutal. No way. MK is brutal. Give it up.

• Laura Boone // Oct 25, 2005 at 7:36 am

  Jacie,

  Please use original arguements and an original script. This one circulates over and over. If you want to make your point, be original in your thinking and arguement. Don’t be a Mary Kay clone..show some class.

• Foo // Oct 25, 2005 at 8:05 am

  Here we go again, calling people losers. And it’s MARY KAY people calling names!! Don’t try to tell me that the people against MK are being brutal. No way. MK is brutal. Give it up.

• Cristen Johannsen // Oct 25, 2005 at 11:30 am

  I can not believe all the bad stuff about MK on this site. I love MK, I signed my agreement on July 23,2005..I am in DIQ now with 13 recruits. Mary Kay has changed my life in so many great ways. This is a great Company to work for, just because it didn’t work out for some of you doesn’t mean you have to be so negative!!

• To Cristen // Oct 25, 2005 at 5:20 pm

  And to get where you are, you had to convince women to stock up on “inventory” that will never be sold. Can you sleep at night? Especially since you’ll have to convince at least 16 more women to do the same….put their families in debt so you can have the position of “Sales Director” for which you’ll be paid about minimum wage. Yee haw!

• Foo // Oct 26, 2005 at 12:09 pm

  Cristen, we’re not the ones being negative!! It’s the Mary Kay folks who keep showing up and calling people losers!

• wtf? // Oct 26, 2005 at 12:59 pm

  All the negativity from pro-MK thinkers:

  Roslyn Yearwood says:

  I hope the women who won the lawsuit realizes that “what goes around comes around” Have you really won? Just remember “You get what you deserve”. And for the people who say Mary Kay consultant are dumb. It takes one to know one.

  Posted by: Roslyn Yearwood on October 02, 2004

  Princess says:

  All of you who are saying these negative things about Mary Kay have no idea what you are talking about. Christine has not a clue what she is talking about. Her statements alone show that she is actually on of the dumbest people around.

  Jennifer Clinkscales says:

  It is not Mary Kay, Inc. fault if a consultant doesn’t know how to control spending. Mary Kay offers a chance to either carry inventory or not; it’s the consultant’s decision and it’s the consultant’s fault if they rack up thousands of dollars of debt. Learn how to organize, plan, budget, forecast, and most of all, SELL! If you can’t, you don’t need to go blamming the business. Every business has to know how to do these things. If they don’t, they will probably fail, and they can’t blame anyone but themselves.

  Jeannie Guadagnoli Wray says:

  I hope and pray she finds peace for herself and for her family. “God first, family second, career third” (maybe she wasn’t paying attention).

  Billie says:

  This lady may have won 11 million dollars, but I guarantee you, if you were to walk up to her on the streets today, she’d just as miserable now as she ever was (and probably complaining about some other injustice).

  Wanda reiterates:

  “WOW! I can’t beleive this settled. I hope MK appeals and even slaps her with a countersuit”-Meredith deLeo

  “I hope the women who won the lawsuit realizes that “what goes around comes around” Have you really won? Just remember “You get what you deserve”-Roslyn Yearwood

  “I am appalled that this woman sued Mary Kay and even more so that she won. This never should have happened. This was simply another case of someone looking for the free ride. Unfortunately, she got it”-Princess

  And now the voice of reason, which goes unheeded:

  Tammy says:

  To my sister consultants who are posting comments on this issue - kindly step back for a moment before you do so! Please remember the principles which shape our Mary Kay businesses and lives, and moreso consider that if we indeed respect and uphold the values that Mary Kay exemplified and inspired us with…much of what has been said here would not have been said. Mary Kay would not have reacted in some of the manner of fashions I have seen here nor would she have approved of it. Please govern your input with wisdom.

  Dee thinks she’s being positive:

  And if it were not possible for a woman with a family and cancer, speak to National Sales Director Rena Tarbet and let her know it can’t be done. She’ll let you know otherwise…she’s done it…and is still doing it. Cancer or not. We make decisions in our lives. If you choose to be positive, you’ll make it. If you choose to be negative, you won’t. It’s all up to you. Whether you say you can or you can’t, either way, you’re right.

  KC says:

  I am getting ready to join MK for the second time. It took my recruiter 2 mos to answer all my questions and for me to make the decision the first time. It’s HARD WORK. And I worked hard. However, I realized it wasn’t my life goal. I learned so much about running my own business through the MK experience. And I am a college graduate. (Pretty dumb person, huh) I did not work for MK. I worked for myself. Even as I built my team, I continued working. When I lost recruits, that was their decision, not mine, not the company. I base my new business on the Mary Kay way of running a business. I am rejoining, because this is the only product I know how to use. I got tired of tons of stuff from my “local pharmacy” cluttering my drawers. I use the minimum of MK. My four children use it on their own. Three are Kindergarten and younger. I understand that if I don’t sell, I don’t make money. But at least I’m not supporting my local Walmart who’s goal is to put all the little people out of business. I won’t sell this time around. The company says I don’t have to. I also won’t be given team members, commission checks, cars, trips, prizes etc. Because I’m not WORKING for them. Any successful team leader, sales director or higher knows, you don’t get anything given to you by not working your business. I feel bad for this lady. But she didn’t work for Mary Kay any more than I work for my suppliers. And obviously she didn’t understand how her business worked. Oh, and for the counselor helping past MK consultants. Give me a break. Mary Kay was the only positive thing in my life, I think that’s one of the reason’s I’m signing up again. They obviously had other issues. And just the connection of MK to blame it on. I know my depresion isn’t because I was a MK consultant. To the new recruits, you will get out of this exactly what you put in to it.

  Posted by: KC on March 31, 2005

  Uhhhh… does the Sales Director do the work, as she says first, or does the UNIT do the work, as in the second statement???

  melissa says:

  To the person who said Mary Kay owns

  Avon- AVON and Mary Kay are not affiliated in any way WHATSOVER!

  To all here who have bittnerness and a grudge against Mary Kay, I am truly astonished at the level of hatred and lack of personal repsonsibility. As a Senior Director for 9 years now I must say that Directorship is very rewarding when I work! Directors who rely soley on their units to carry them often find themselves disappointed. I would like to comment on Ms. Woolf- I am from the same NSD Area she was in. For those of you out there who think you “know” about Mary Kay, let me enlighten you. This woman DID NOT LOSE ANY MONEY by MK “Taking her directorship”. I can say this because a Director who IS NOT MAKING PRODUCTION IS MAKING CONSULTANT PAY- no ifs, ands or buts. If your unit does less than $4000 you only get 9% and bonuses don’t even happen until your unit reaches $5000 for the month and if she wasn’t making production then she was doing less than $4000. Where is the money she lost?? Did she truly think MK should pay her commission on sales that her UNIT did not make?? If Ms. Woolf was worthy of her position and a strong, loving leader her unit would have RALLIED around her to make it happen. The fact that they didn’t- speaks VOLUMES. I didn’t know her peronsally but I know others who did and frankly from what I hear she wasn’t a likeable person. THat is neither here nor there because the fact is her lawsuit was unwarranted. The fact that a jury agreed with her means NOTHING. Take O.J. and Michael Jackson for examples. The laws regarding “Independent Contractors” are very clear. The DSA and ALL other Direct Selling companies had/have an interest in this verdict (which was overturned by theway because the LAW is clear). There is nothing unethical about companies that use Independent Contractors- nothing!! I am so astonished at the masses of uneducated people out there who spout off about things the OBVIOUSLY know nothing about.

  Mary Kay, Inc is like every other company out there- about making money. True that MK is also about so much more but the $$ is the bottom line and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! That is the American Way- Entreprenuership!! $$ makes the world go round! Selling is a noble profession! Everything you have and do in this life is because SOMEONE SOLD SOMETHING.

  Those of you that so clearly “hate” MK- I believe your real problem lies with yourself and how you feel about you. Blaming and pointing fingers and being angry serves no one. If you don’t want to be associated with MK- GREAT- then MOVE ON. But don’t try to HURT the women who remain in MK. If you are the caring people you say you are then WHY would you purposefully do and say things to damage the reputations and finances of the GOOD women who are in MK. It is truly shameful and your words and stories say MORE about YOU than they do about MK.

  Have a nice day!

  Melissa

  Posted by: melissa on June 18, 2005

  And, the infamous “Melissa” starts in:

  Melissa says:

  Sara- you are a perfect example of someone who doesn’t know how to take personal responsibility for her actions. No matter how many times you say it or how many different ways, your Director is NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR DEBT. You are your own person and a grown woman who could have said NO. You could have chosen to be RESPONSIBLE with your finances. I don’t care WHAT your Director said to you about team spirit blah blah blah- YOU spent your money unwisely not her. Admit you are soley responsible and move on!

  Posted by: Melissa on July 09, 2005

  Karl, Karl, Karl… yes, the repurchase option had just been mentioned by Sara, however, it doesn’t absolve all debt, as it’s only 90%…

  Karl Wiegandt says:

  To those who blame Mary Kay with forcing you into Bankruptcy, you have not mentioned that there is a 90% buyback rule on products that were purchased by the consultant. There are so many responses to these comments that I would like to make, but will abstain for many reasons. The company has been wonderful to my wife and I and I am so I have nothing but good experiences. One thing is that those that are rewarded are those that work. My wife works this as a full time job, and probably more hours than most pprofessions. There is a reaon why there are salaried jobs and self-employed jobs. Those that work hard in this career will reap the rewards far greater than the income potential. And the schedule C comment is ridicous as a good manager of his or her company sees the need for proper money management and will not on a continuous basis lose money because they are putting too much into the business. Does your wife claim all her CASH sales to the IRS, if not then that is a huge reason for this business. Feel free to e mail me any questions that you may have. If this is the only problem that MAry Kay has had in its 43 years of existance, then I think it is a remarkable record.

  Posted by: Karl Wiegandt on July 11, 2005

  And he just can’t get his facts straight… way more than one lawsuit!

  Karl says:

  Cami,

  I understand your comments, yet i do not think that there is anything wrong with the companies procedure. They do a great job of promoting new inventory on a quarterly basis to keep up with the market and keep the interest of all consultants. Of course there are going to be times when they need to do special promotions and giveaways to move the old and bring in the new. Have you never purchased anything on sale from any department store or grocery store? It is what all companies do on a regular basis and am confused at your hostility for these common procedures.

  I am very proud of my wife and HER HARD WORK. Please do not fault her for using her abilities to make an enormous impact on thousands of lives across the united states. Maybe it would better serve you to channel all this energy in a way that would help out those around you, rather than chatting in a forum about the few negatives of a company which frankly has done little wrong in its existance. As I stated earlier 1 lawsuit in 43 years is a remarkable record. Mary Kay REWARDS those that work hard and I would dare anyone to work as hard as my wife does and see the rewards (not financial) that you would reap.

  Posted by: Karl on July 12, 2005

  Marjorie, Marjorie…

  Grow up guys. If you put 100,000 into a macdonald franchise and it fails , whose fault is it?

  Posted by: Marjorie Mar on July 19, 2005

  The saddest part of this whole thing is that KayBots actually take this kind of a comment seriously, and attempt to respond to it:

  Sick of the pinkos says:

  Marjorie,

  I am about fed up with pinkos like you. I hope you die in your pink bubble. In fact, I hope you and your product go to hell.

  Mary Kay sucks BIG monkey balls.

  Posted by: Sick of the pinkos on July 21, 2005

  Yeah, people are pissed. Let it go. Stick to the facts.

  Bamabee, what are you thinking??

  But, the company spells everything out in black and white. My responsibilities and their responsibilities. It sounds like someone trusted their recruiter instead of the contract in front of them. As any one who has ever faced a drill sergeant on the first day of basic training knows, recruiters don’t always tell the truth. Buyer Beware. You have the right to be angry, you also have the responsibility to be smarter next time you start a business, and not get sold on emotion and then blame everyone else because you made a bad decision.

  Well, she thought about it:

  Bamabee says:

  I would like to apologize for my comments of just a minute ago. I’ve thought about what I said, and I think I was being harsh. If you don’t want to sell MK, I think you should take it all out the backdoor and make a bonfire with it. I wouldn’t want all that stuff staring at me. I’d be hostile, too.

  Posted by: Bamabee on August 03, 2005

  And you know this, how??

  single mom says:

  I am consultant of less than a year and I love the product. The department store products never made my skin look and feel so great. When I made the choice to sell Mary Kay I went in with my eyes open. No one made me order anythng. I order all on my own. The only reason I can see this lawsuit happend is because the consultant wanted to reach her star status every quarter so she ordered more than she was selling and she got sick. Her inventory sat there. She could not service her customers so they went else where.

• Kate Miers // Oct 29, 2005 at 10:33 am

  You guys are really funny. Now i’ve come in contact with “Mary Kay” women. Real women who stick to the principal of the company and women who keep their word, and i have come in contact with “Mary Kay Wanna Be’s” Women who sell it, but dont live with the principals at hand. Those of you who oppose mary kay, you are at right. There are some directors/consultnats who are just after it for the money and they will “sucker” anyone in that they can by not telling them the full truth of everything. And those women who love it…you are at right as well. There are some Mary Kay women who tell you exactly how much inventory costs, how long you have to return it, the quotas…because they’re are quotas to stay active and receive bonuses…and they let you in on how to manage your money because its the key to business. So all of you are right, so why cant you agree to disagree?

• wft // Oct 31, 2005 at 10:37 am

  We are disagreeing with those who, as you say, “… who are just after it for the money and they will “sucker” anyone in that they can by not telling them the full truth of everything.”

  I don’t think anyone has a problem with the honest women. It’s the ones who spew nastiness when others are simply asking questions or stating facts.

  What’s wrong with that?

  And, what’s wrong with disagreeing?

• Kate Mier // Nov 1, 2005 at 11:27 am

  Nothing is wrong with choosing to disagree…but the problem starts when one calls another a name because they dont have the same belief in something…that isnt right. ANd im not saying that you are one of them, one of the name calling ones, because lord knows i dont take anything from anyone either…but im just saying why cant we agree to disagree in a more mature manner? If someone doesnt like mary kay im not going to say mean or rude things just because i like it, or vise versa. I just dont think that we should lower ourselves to the level that others are on when they’re shouting out 4 letter words for someone not having the same beliefs as they do. They’re are some consultants that are honest and out there to help others…by letting them know the TRUTHS of mary kay…because once you join…even my director has told me, NEVER NEVER NEVER tell about inventory prices or things of that nature since the price is high and it will scare many away…but thats not me. I think that if they know everything coming into the business, then they’ll succeed becaus the wont feel betrayed by their recruit or director…just a thought….

  WHy fight when we can talk??

• wtf // Nov 1, 2005 at 2:04 pm

  Kate, why would you want to be involved with an organization that tell you not to tell the truth?

  That right there is a basic deal-breaker. And it’s on this point that I keep repeating myself. I can’t see why anyone, honest and good or not, would want to be involved with such an organization?

  This goes beyond disagreeing and name-calling. Mary Kay Corporation is using women to make tons of money. This is how it is. Disagree, call me names, say I’m crazy. But, at the end of the day, for every $1 a consultant makes, MK makes at least $2.

  Who wins? Not the consultant.

• wtf // Nov 1, 2005 at 2:06 pm

  btw, no one has shouted four-letter words. In fact, the point I was trying to make is that a lot of these pro-MK comments are backhanded insults, devised to look like simple conversation on the surface.

  A standard brainwashing technique.

  http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/articles/BITE.htm

• Kate Mier // Nov 3, 2005 at 7:13 pm

  Okay…all that MLM…now that was childish. The Company itself doesnt tell you to lie to the consultants…its the dishonest people that takes things and twist them…but we all know that there are people like that everywhere. Of course Mary Kay makes money off of their products…just like all the rest of the companies do. What type of business would make it if they didnt make profit?? And if you read throughout this site, yes four letter words have been blared…or words even worse. I just cant bring myself to belive that since there are some dishonest people in the business, that its a horrible business all around. Havent you watched the news about the doctor that gave many patients a fake flu shot? Now does that give me the right to say “That doctor was wrong and could have caused alot of trouble, therefore im not going to ANY doctors anymore!” How crazy is that?

  Point made clear!

• Duh Kate // Nov 3, 2005 at 8:01 pm

  Kate there aren’t “some” dishonest people in MK. Every sales director has cheated by signing up family members to finish DIQ. We all know it. We all know how maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany of the directors place orders in consultants names to make them “active”.

  And corporate condones all this. Why? Because it adds billions to their sales. So why not!!!

  Yes, Mary Kay is a pyramid scheme. MLM. Mary Kay sucks!

• HAPPY // Nov 3, 2005 at 10:02 pm

  I STARTED MK AND I WAS ALSO WORKING 60 HOURS A WEEK AND A SINGLE MOM. I DID SACRIFICE SOME BUT NOW I WORK 25 HOURS A WEEK AND MAKE 46000,00 A YEAR. THAT MEANS I PUT THE TIME AND WORK IN WHEN AND ENJOY EVERY MINUTE BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY I CAN BE WITH MY SON.

• $46k...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight // Nov 4, 2005 at 8:19 pm

  To the woman who claims she’s making $46k…you forgot to mention all the expenses of running your business. I bet you only have $20k left after expenses. That’s not much of a living. Oh, and we all know how MK women count their “hours”. You’re leaving out an awful lot of hours, and you know it.

• Kate Mier // Nov 4, 2005 at 9:11 pm

  You guys are really childish. You know, there are good people in this world. You cant say ALL directors have gotten their family to sign up…i know quite a few that havent done that. Actually, i know quite a few that NONE of their family and friends are on their unit. As for the lady who started mary kay and is succeeding…YOU GO GIRL!!

  Is it that your jealous someone can succeed…and you didnt?

• Paul Lindsey // Nov 5, 2005 at 9:04 am

  On Oct 20, 2004,, a Texas appeals court overturned this judgement, ruling that this former director was an independent contractor and not an employee. See http://www.cob.sjsu.edu/facstaff/malos_s/CA%20Employment%20Law%20Letter%2011-1-04.pdf . See Page 2. Note: in the last statement of this link, the writer implies that perhaps the former director would have done better to sue under a California law called the Unruh Act. Angela Alioto (the lawyer) is not stupid. I’m sure that if Ms. Alioto thought she could win using that premise, she would sued under that law. Perhaps she could not because the Mary Kay contract required any diputes to follow Texas law. (Just as most credit card companies require disputes to be filed in Delaware.)

• Re: California // Nov 5, 2005 at 9:45 am

  That writer should have done his homework. If he had, he would have seen that she DID try to sue in California, and the court kicked it out. Hence why the case was fought in Texas.

• Foo // Nov 10, 2005 at 10:26 am

  Paul Lindsay said: “…the Mary Kay contract required any diputes to follow Texas law. (Just as most credit card companies require disputes to be filed in Delaware.)”

  Yes, so one look at the contract, and California courts would _have_ to toss it. Duh.

• 1 Peter Ch3 // Nov 16, 2005 at 12:08 pm

  “Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which if of great worth in Gods sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful.”

  1 Peter 3:3-5

  The fact is that make up is a great way to cover up the shame of sin. We cannot attain true beauty or joy through what we do or what business we are in. Make up doesn’t promote Gods word. You cannot put God first and sell make up at the same time.

• angel 1 // Nov 22, 2005 at 2:43 pm

  1 Peter ch3 - beautiful scripture and good post, except for the part that you cannot put God first and sell make up at the same time. Many of us make a living at something and can still put our God first; if you are referring to the materialistic idolators in MK, it suits them.

  Yes, God looks at the heart and another scripture is “charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting, but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised”. Then there’s the “you will give an account for every careless word spoken”. That SHOULD send some MK reps hoppin to the bible to find out what they should/shouldn’t be doing when presenting this opportunity in the name of God.

  God can use anything, even make up to advance the Gospel. God can even use abusive MK people to advance His gospel. Think about it. MK DOES preach about God all the time, even Paul said “least the gospel is being preached” when those less than holy were preaching it.

• LeeAnne Howartz // Nov 25, 2005 at 7:33 pm

  Mary Kay is rotting in her grave right now. Leave her dead, stinking corpse AND her “vision” in the ground. Get real. That old woman schemed her way to millions on the backs of poor, unsuspecting women. She should have been lynched for her evil ways.

  Dancing on MK’s grave and spitting on her plot.

• Alaina // Nov 26, 2005 at 4:06 pm

  Just for good measure, I’ll snuff out a cigarette butt on her grave and p*ss on it too!

• LeeAnne Howartz // Nov 26, 2005 at 8:47 pm

  after you dance on her grave and p*ss on it, I will come behind you and poop on it. Eat poop you old fart lady who never did anything but scheme to EXPLOIT women.

• LeeAnne Howartz // Nov 29, 2005 at 8:13 pm

  Hmmm…nobody wants to dispute me? Good. Mary Kay was an evil lady and she needs to be known far and wide as an evil devil woman. May she rot in hell. I wish she had died in a raging fire or a blazing car crash.

  Good riddance!

• Shaniqua Jones // Nov 29, 2005 at 8:24 pm

  Um, LeeAnee?

  Girl, you need to go to this website and get some healing from your MK obsession. It sounds like MK chewed you up and spit you out.

  http://www.thepinkingshears.org

  It is okay to be upset with the system. If you haven’t gotten OUT yet, then do it..and soon!

  There is a 90% buyback guarantee..it is a rolling 12 months so gather up you stuff and SEND IT BACK.

• Brandy the hot chick // Nov 29, 2005 at 8:26 pm

  RIght on, Sister! Right on! Go Shaniqua!!

• Elite Executive Senior Survivor // Nov 30, 2005 at 6:18 pm

  http://www.thepinkingshears.org

  I highly recommend that ANYONE having doubts about MK visit this site.

• laughing my butt off // Dec 1, 2005 at 11:18 am

  LeeAnne,

  It might just be that everyone is laughing too hard to dispute you. I check in just for a huge laugh. Thanks.

• Yankee girl // Dec 5, 2005 at 11:23 am

  All Mary Kay Directors and Nationals are whoremongers.

  They are all out for one thing..it is all about them and not about anyone but them. I hope Pam Shaw and Gloria Mayfield Banks die in a big explosion. I would love to know that they were no longer among the living.

• Gigi // Dec 5, 2005 at 1:37 pm

  Pimp them out, Mary Kay! Pimp those ladies out.

  Whoremongers indeed.

  All National Sales Directors and their downlines need to go jump in a lake. Take your scripted training with you.

• Yankee girl // Dec 5, 2005 at 8:29 pm

  I apologize for my not so nice post. I truly believe that all training in Mary Kay comes from the upper echelon of the sales force. IE: the National sales directors. I believe that their greed and selfishness pushes others to be greedy and self centered.

  Because of Mary Kay Cosmetics, I lost my house, my husband, my family, my friends and now my credit rating. I am now 3 years into being a “MaryKay consultant” and am $35,000 in debt. I have an entire household of product that isn’t selling despite the busiest shopping season of the year and the crappy MK advertising campaign.

  I want to just end it all but not before I see Pam Shaw and GLoria Banks suffer their own consequences.

  Should I maybe check out that pinking site for advice??

• MK Survivor // Dec 5, 2005 at 9:33 pm

  Yankee Girl, please check out the pinking shears site, or join the MK Survivors yahoo group. both places can be a source of support for you. I am so sorry for what you have been through. join us and start on the road toward healing.

  http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MKSurvivors/

  http://www.thepinkingshears.org

• laura // Dec 6, 2005 at 7:18 pm

  Yankee girl:

  You are right in that the Nationals of MK are responsible for the teachings handed down thru the downlines. Shame on em. People look up to them and because they present themselves so righteous and successful, even wrong teaching seems “ok” to their followers. Corporate condones them though. When’s the last time corporate yanked a National for deceptive practices?

  I hope that you do check out our website and our group if you found yourself swooped in the pink fog.

  Curious as to why you’ve singled out those two Nationals? Were you in their area? There are so many others, imo, who teach unethical stuff (behind the scenes, of course!)

• suzi leeman // Dec 8, 2005 at 5:10 pm

  I just cannot believe that people would waste their time with all this drivel. Don’t these people have lives? And second of all, I REALLY cannot believe that a message board would allow all of this bashing and horribly nasty discussion. I remain neutral, neither for nor against MK. But to s–t on the dead and deceased is best left to the LOWEST form of life. Don’t bother replying to my post, as I will not be returning to this site every again. Good luck to you all. You all need it.

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