TEXAS – A jury in Texas ordered Mary Kay Inc. to pay $11.2 million including $10 million in punitive damages, for firing a sales manager disabled by cancer, who, the company argued, was not an employee but an independent contractor.
“This verdict means the 920,000 alleged independent contractors working for Mary Kay have their civil rights,” said plaintiff’s counsel Angela Alioto. “If they get sick, they have a remedy. They can take a leave.”.
(via The National Law Journal)
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Cami,
I understand your comments, yet i do not think that there is anything wrong with the companies procedure. They do a great job of promoting new inventory on a quarterly basis to keep up with the market and keep the interest of all consultants. Of course there are going to be times when they need to do special promotions and giveaways to move the old and bring in the new. Have you never purchased anything on sale from any department store or grocery store? It is what all companies do on a regular basis and am confused at your hostility for these common procedures.
I am very proud of my wife and HER HARD WORK. Please do not fault her for using her abilities to make an enormous impact on thousands of lives across the united states. Maybe it would better serve you to channel all this energy in a way that would help out those around you, rather than chatting in a forum about the few negatives of a company which frankly has done little wrong in its existance. As I stated earlier 1 lawsuit in 43 years is a remarkable record. Mary Kay REWARDS those that work hard and I would dare anyone to work as hard as my wife does and see the rewards (not financial) that you would reap.
This original post just happens to be about one lawsuit. There’s the patent infringement lawsuit that MK lost ($26m to Neostrata), and the suits going back and forth between MK and Rogers’ predecessor, John Rochon.
Not that “1 in 43 years” isn’t bad… but look at the content of these suits: wrongful dismissal/confusing “employee” and “independent contractor,” patent infringement, and the stinky battle between a guy who made money and a guy who spent money (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3862/is_200403/ai_n9361848/pg_1)
It’s not that Dacia didn’t/isn’t working hard. It *IS* about the other side of the story… the people who are being taken advantage of, the brainwashing attempted, and the bill of goods that many of us were sold in the name of our own dreams.
Some people were hurt very badly. For so long, no one has spoken up. Mary Kay has been the one non-MLM-MLM. So many people out there saying it’s not an MLM. It *IS* an MLM, and it borders on cult-like behavior.
People _can_ make money in this business. But, it’s not all sweet-smelling roses. All this talk of “Enriching Women’s Lives” is a crock. Dacia simply found the right number of women who were willing to plunk down thousands of dollars in inventory to start their own businesses. Oh, and she probably has sold a lot of product herself along the way.
Dacia may be operating with the best of integrity. However, that would be in the minority. It’s the majority that we would like to warn people about. Not the minority.
I personally have no problem with women who run successful Mary Kay businesses. However, I _do_ have a problem with Mary Kay women calling me a failure because I _chose_ not to continue mine.
> To those who blame Mary Kay with forcing you into Bankruptcy, you have
> not mentioned that there is a 90% buyback rule on products that were purchased by the consultant.
You mean on “Section 1″ products (samples, catalogs, motivational materials, & class supplies, all of which consultants pay for, are excluded) that were purchased by the consultant within the last 12 month, less shipping and the cost of any prizes awarded you by Mary Kay, will be refunded at 90% of their cost at your most recent order (so items that have been discontinued & reduced are refunded at lower prices.) Yes, there is such a policy, and the recruiters will mention it big-time as they are recruiting you, but if you ever hint that you want to take advantage of it, they will pull out all the stops to discourage you from using it. Some consultants were told is was only good for their first year (it is really a rolling 12 months.) Many are guilted … their recruiter who they consider a friend will get charged back for their return. They are told how they can make more money by selling it even at a discount (if only anyone would buy the stuff!) They are told how they can never be in Mary Kay again if they do the return. All of these arguments lead many consultants to wait too long and lose eligibility for the refund.
> One thing is that those that are rewarded are those that work.
And then again, there are those who work hard at it and are not rewarded… actually lose money. Maybe they have the wrong personality for the business, but sure enough when getting recruited, they were told that didn’t matter.
Your wife has received tons of publicity because she is the rare exception in this business. We’ve heard from many many consultants and directors who worked hard, long hours, and ended up with far less than they’d have made at a regular job, in the majority of cases actually losing money.
> My wife works this as a full time job, and probably more hours than most pprofessions.
Hmmm… and they told us when selling us the opportunity that we could have more time for our kids, and make good money working fewer hours than a regular job.
> Does your wife claim all her CASH sales to the IRS, if not then that is a
> huge reason for this business.
So you are saying this is a good business for people who don’t mind cheating on their taxes?
-Rachel
Thanks you for all the information and I wish you the best
This original post just happens to be about one lawsuit. There’s the patent infringement lawsuit that MK lost ($26m to Neostrata), and the suits going back and forth between MK and Rogers’ predecessor, John Rochon.
Not that “1 in 43 years” isn’t bad… but look at the content of these suits: wrongful dismissal/confusing “employee” and “independent contractor,” patent infringement, and the stinky battle between a guy who made money and a guy who spent money (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3862/is_200403/ai_n9361848/pg_1)
It’s not that Dacia didn’t/isn’t working hard. It *IS* about the other side of the story… the people who are being taken advantage of, the brainwashing attempted, and the bill of goods that many of us were sold in the name of our own dreams.
Some people were hurt very badly. For so long, no one has spoken up. Mary Kay has been the one non-MLM-MLM. So many people out there saying it’s not an MLM. It *IS* an MLM, and it borders on cult-like behavior.
People _can_ make money in this business. But, it’s not all sweet-smelling roses. All this talk of “Enriching Women’s Lives” is a crock. Dacia simply found the right number of women who were willing to plunk down thousands of dollars in inventory to start their own businesses. Oh, and she probably has sold a lot of product herself along the way.
Dacia may be operating with the best of integrity. However, that would be in the minority. It’s the majority that we would like to warn people about. Not the minority.
I personally have no problem with women who run successful Mary Kay businesses. However, I _do_ have a problem with Mary Kay women calling me a failure because I _chose_ not to continue mine.
I can’t believe the complaints against Mary Kay. We have a consultant in our unit who sent her inventory back but was reinstated after a special appeal to corporate by our director. She earned her car and will debut on stage as a new director all in less than a year. She also has a DIQ in her unit.As far as being pressured into buying inventory I never have experienced that at all. I have been asked but if I felt this was not in my best interest I always said no and never felt any repercussions from it.When I became a consultant, I was given a superb product to proudly present to my customers.I was not given a cacoon to crawl in and be coddled. Where in the corporate world is there such a phenomenon.I also understood that if my business is to succed it is up to me. As far as changing product lines frequently, what’s the big deal. I just pretend it doesn’t exist until the original line is sold. Another thing,What’s the big deal about changing lip colors. I don’t get it. It doesn’t prohibit you from selling the old colors. Grow up guys. If you put 100,000 into a macdonald franchise and it fails , whose fault is it?
Marjorie,
I am about fed up with pinkos like you. I hope you die in your pink bubble. In fact, I hope you and your product go to hell.
Mary Kay sucks BIG monkey balls.
Hey Marjorie!
I have just 2 words for you. BITE ME.
Dear Pink Teminator and Sick of Pinkos,Your respomnses speak volumes.
Dearest Marjorie,
SO DO YOURS.
p.s. Marjorie,
Ever heard of SPELL CHECK????
Remember, Mary Kay is an opportunity. No one, No one can make you do anything. Be in charge of your own destiny and be responsible for your actions, whether you approve or disapprove of Mary Kay.
Mary Kay Cosmetics is horrible. These women infiltrate churches in order to get new recruits. That is despicable! Church is for worshipping God, not trolling for new recruits for some silly cosmetics “business opportunity”.
I guess I just wanted to weigh in on this discussion as I understand both sides so well. I came across this discussion group totally by accident in searching Mary Kay on the internet.
I was in Mary Kay over 13 years ago and the National Court of Sales and Recruiting. I walked across stage in Dallas, received a gorgeous diamond ring and met Mary Kay at her beautiful home at a special reception. It was a surreal experience. I was THE up and coming superstar in my unit, and starting to qualify for my directorship.
I, too, totally bought into the MK experience, believed in the MK philosophy, was accused of cultlike behavior, etc. MK offered me recognition for my efforts that I had not received before, a belief in my abilities that no one else had held for me.
I was also in a spiraling marriage with a very wealthy, controlling alcoholic. Being in MK gave me my self confidence back, my own money, recognition and self esteem. Enough, in fact, to have the guts to get a divorce. It was then that it all fell apart. I was on hold during my divorce and not performing at the level that I had been, although I certainly had not quit. I thought I was experiencing a difficult time and would get emotional support from the women around me in MK. That is what is preached constantly, women supporting other women. Intead, I was shocked when the directors above me, that I admired and loved, started to recruit my customers and team members out from under me. My whole team fell apart.
I was so stunned, so embittered, that I quit MK and sent everything back.
I then went on a quest to find a myself, along with a new career.
I sold Avon for awhile and was their top salesman too. Sick of the sales game, I decided to go back to college and finish my BA in Social Science, and then I went to law school, but didn’t like being a lawyer. I got my real estate license and you want to talk about crossing the line of independent contractor status! That was a joke! Then, I went to work as a social worker, 12 hour nights, no schedule, in a group home. I am sick of it all. No one seems to appreciates the hard work that you put in. No one appreciates your intelligence or any innovative thinking. All they want is a gofer for as cheap as they can get, with as little benefits as they can get by with.
So, I bought an acreage and isolated myself from the world, except family. Now, I find myself getting bored with pulling weeds and perfecting gardens and am starting to miss people and wanting to make money again.
I find myself strangely being drawn back to the MK world. Not by anyone else, I don’t even know a MK consultant anymore, just my own desire. Something unfinished, if you will. If I do it, I know it will be hard work. But, I also know what the benefits are and what can be accomplished. I just wouldn’t be as niave about it again.
I am remarried to a man that runs his own business. If he gets sick, we are screwed, plain and simple, there is no one to help, so I understand that side of it too. I also am aware that when a MK consultant reaches a certain level, particularly directorship, there are promises made by the company beyond what a independent salesperson has, that evidently was not followed through on. It is an abhorrent case, considering that MK and the MK company has been so entrenched with cancer research, and particularly breast cancer research. Where was this woman’s support? Like me, I think she discovered the dark side of MK way too late.
There is no reason that a MK consultant or director should not be able to apply for a leave for a special circumstance and that the other members of her unit should not be encouraged to pull together just as they had by the help of other directors, etc. That would be a simple and direct way of doing it. There are answers to this problem, and they are not difficult ones. What happened to this lady was wrong, that is all there is to it.
I also understand and agree with what many of you are saying about the pushiness of some MK people and some of the approaches that they use. In my mind, there is just no excuse for that kind of behavior. I never did it, although I was encouraged to and was successful doing MK my own way. I was definitely considered assertive, but did not find it necessary to walk up to people when I was out and about, or go to functions so that I could recruit. If you are working MK full time, you don’t have time for all that crap. You find your recruits at skin care classes and among good customers. I find it very unclassy to walk up to someone on the streets, or anywhere else and push MK on them. What a turnoff that would be! Someone is interested or not, in the product or opportunity, or not, go on to the next one. Don’t make people that you know take off running when they see you!
On reflection upon my own experiences, I do believe that in many ways, it is what you make it. It is not my fault that these directors did what they did to me, however it was my own disillusionment and reaction to that disillusionment that made me quit and not theirs.
I still harbor a lot of resentment all these years later, and even though I am thinking of doing MK again, I plan to look for someone from the ruby division to sign up with, and out of town. If I should do it, I will send in my contract with a qualifying order and start from there. My husband says to think about it as he knows that I will go full guns on it again. I am going to take the next few months, deep clean the house, clean out my office and get it ready, get my sales and recruiting packets together and look for someone in Feb. and sign up March 1, 2006. (Because I do not want to start in winter. Ugh!) Then, build over March to June and get ready to start qualifying for directorship again the new fiscal year. And, I will be what they were not, and know better to count on anyone else, besides myself.
Thanks for listening. It has helped a lot to be able to write it all out.
Dear LouAnnda , Sounds like you have a bright future ahead of you. Go for it.
Far more than 1 lawsuit
Mk has certainly been involved in more than one lawsuit by consultants. I can recall reading an article about Mary Kay sales directors in Working Woman magazine featuring a black sales director called “Tommie” showing her mink and pink cadilliac. This article I read in the library I think it was back in the 80s/90s mentioned a lawsuit against MK by about 3 women for overexagerating the profits to be made from sales. Since Mk is a privately held company, sometimes its hard to get details. And most times these things are settled out of court.
It is rare that average women will see fit to challenge such a large corporation with the resources of Mary Kay. In addition, prior to the internet such lawsuits probably did not get the exposure. Frankly there have probably not been that many lawsuits against MK involving consultants, but certainly more than one.
Mary Kay is a corporate entity, not a benevolent parent. When it came to business, Mary Kay Ash could be tough. Mary Kay corp sued and was sued throughout their history, from Beauticontrol litigation from the 80s, to the more recent alphy hydroxy lawsuit loss mentioned in this thread.
Karl I know that you are a supportative husband and I applaud your wife’s success. You have seen the beneficial side. A number of women who posted here have seen a different side.
Signed, Jano a former MK consultant and paralegal
Mary Kay says your family is most important. However, Mary Kay fails to realize that not all women are married and have kids. What about those women? Or do they just not exist according to MK?
WOW! What a lot of emotion on this page. You know, I agree that it would be a generous display of caring for MK to have given this woman extra time to recover before taking her directorship. Having said that though, business is not charity. You either perform or you don’t. That’s what is so great about it. If you succeed you know it was your own efforts. If you don’t succeed, it’s a heartbreak, but that’s the breaks kid. Nobody owes you a second chance, even in the worst circumstances. It’s business. It’s about making money. Don’t believe me, ask the IRS. They say if you haven’t made money in the first three years, you’re not a business. Business = money. MK is a great organization that provides a positive environment for making money, but they are not responsible for you or me. I do believe that some recruiters acting in their own interests (money) use shady tactics. But, the company spells everything out in black and white. My responsibilities and their responsibilities. It sounds like someone trusted their recruiter instead of the contract in front of them. As any one who has ever faced a drill sergeant on the first day of basic training knows, recruiters don’t always tell the truth. Buyer Beware. You have the right to be angry, you also have the responsibility to be smarter next time you start a business, and not get sold on emotion and then blame everyone else because you made a bad decision. I think you should rejoin MK and sell that product and become a success by doing it the right way. Don’t lie to anybody, encourage people to buy more inventory than they can afford or encourage them to go into debt. You can avoid all these things and be an example. You don’t have to do it their way. And Wow, with $10,000 worth of inventory, you could have a great time doing it the ethical way. You could even lead a movement to change attitudes or you could do it just to show ‘em.
I would like to apologize for my comments of just a minute ago. I’ve thought about what I said, and I think I was being harsh. If you don’t want to sell MK, I think you should take it all out the backdoor and make a bonfire with it. I wouldn’t want all that stuff staring at me. I’d be hostile, too.
I am consultant of less than a year and I love the product. The department store products never made my skin look and feel so great. When I made the choice to sell Mary Kay I went in with my eyes open. No one made me order anythng. I order all on my own. The only reason I can see this lawsuit happend is because the consultant wanted to reach her star status every quarter so she ordered more than she was selling and she got sick. Her inventory sat there. She could not service her customers so they went else where. If you are not working your business how can you expect to reap any rewards. Alot of people have made some comments here, good and bad. I am not a so called “church goer” but I do believe God or whom ever you spiritually worship has alot to do with how you see the world. Since I have been with Mary Kay I can honestly say I have personally grown. I am a single mother and do recieve child support but that does not mean he pays when he is suppposed to. At Christmas time he had not paid for 2 months. Mary Kay made it possible to give my little girl Christmas. I do work a full time job too and help my widowed mother around the house. Mary Kay didn’t fail this woman, she failed herself. I have learned so much from my director and about myself. We support each other, cry together, laugh together, cheer each other on. Everyone starts from the same place. If she lost her directorship its because she was working her business the wrong way, training her people the wrong way. If it wasn’t for an opportunity like this, how many women out there who are in abusive realtionships or like myself a single mom might be on welfare. This business is what YOU make of it. I am also a cosmetologist, I work for commission. If I am not cutting hair, i make no money. Same principle with Mary Kay. If I’m not selling, I’m not making any money. All the women I have met have their own obstacles, from special need child to being vision impaired or handicapped. I had my doubts too about the company and i’ve done my research and I believe this company is the right choice for me. Everyone is entitled to think what they want, thats what’s great about free will. I have not been brainwashed or maybe I am because I try to think for myself and be positive. Yeah I’ve been thru therapy for depression, taken anti-depressants( don’t tell Tom Cruise)but since Mary Kay I feel better and no longer take them and I feel great about myself and life. Those of you who seem to be bitter about the opportunity Mary Kay has for women must have lots of wrinkles from frowning and scowling everyday. Too bad your narrow-minded. Even the Grinches heart grew 10 sizes.HEE HEE. God Bless.
Wow! Lots of opinions to read about this one! First of all, I have to lead with a little background on me. I’ve been a consultant for nearly 6 years. When I joined, I SOUGHT OUT someone to sign me up! I had used the product for 4 years, and loved it. Being a professional accountant, I knew an in-home business was a great tax write-off, not to mention getting my own products at a discount.
Now, I have a few comments of my own experience with MK I’d like to share, and comments some dealing with the pure ignorance and sense of entitlement I’ve read in some of these posts.
I EARNED my free car in May, and I’m currently in DIQ. I have around 240-250 customers, and 14 personal team members.
My director, who is now an NSD, NEVER, EVER, NOT ONCE, forced me, or anyone else, into inventory. She NEVER pushed me or anyone else into anything we didn’t want to do. Was our unit kept aware of our goals for the year and month? Yes! Were we notified by her when we become inactive? Yes! That’s her job to keep you informed! And guess what? When you sell product, YOU just made MONEY! Cash in your pocket, right now. Did she profit from you ordering? Yes! And why shouldn’t she? Her job is to train you, lead you, motivate you, answer your questions, help YOU be successful, to whatever level you want. I can’t tell you how many times that selling product put gas in my car or bought some groceries because I was out of my day-job money, and payday was still a week away. Need some money? Hold an appointment or get on the phone and do some good customer service. I can’t tell you how many times a customer has said to me “I’ve been needing to call you, but I keep forgetting. I need this, and this, and this.” Too easy!
My director has said adamantly many, many times she does not want ANYONE ordering product just to order product. Not just to meet a unit goal, car production, etc. People would call her to “help” on the last day of the seminar year, and she WOULDN’T TAKE THEIR ORDER unless they actually SOLD THE PRODUCT and needed to order. She believes no one should go into financial ruin over trying to “help”.
Did I start with inventory? Yes. I started with $3600. As a business woman, I saw the benefit of having product on hand. You can’t sell what you don’t have. And I knew I wanted to WORK MY BUSINESS….HELLO people, this is a business! Cosmetics is an emotional buy. If a woman wants a new lipstick, she’ll either get it from you or Wal-Mart. I can’t tell you how many times I sold MORE because I could give it to them on the spot.
I was told about the 90% buyback guarantee AND the no coming back to MK if I do, UPFRONT! And I was told it’s not just the first year, it’s a revolving 12 months! It’s ON THE BACK OF THE AGREEMENT! If people would take the time to read what they are signing, that would eliminate most of the complaints I hear about. It’s not like it’s 20 pages long. IT’S ONE PAGE! I highlight it on the agreement and point it out to every new team member. That’s WHY I decided to do $3600. I couldn’t lose no matter what.
My director, who is also my recruiter, is very upfront and frank with ALL the aspects of MK, and she teaches honesty and integrity to every new consultant and director. There are NO QUOTAS JUST TO BE A CONSULTANT. That is true. If you want to earn a car and/or become a director, there ARE quotas. Let’s think about this now, people. If you worked for let’s say an auto insurance company and your job was to drive to repair shops and customers homes and they gave you a “company” car in which to do this that get to drive for free, do you really think you get to keep the car and the paycheck if you quit? GET REAL! If that exists out there somewhere in corporate America, I’d love to know about it! You cannot have a FREE CAR and BIG GIRL commission checks if you DON’T WORK!!!! DUH!!!
This company IS about God first (any God), family second, and career third, NOT career 33rd, as I see so many former consultants do! I had a personal tragedy over 3 years ago. My premature twins died shortly after birth. Guess who paid for the funeral? My sisters in MK graciously donated over 75% of the costs! My dad contributed the rest. COMPLETE STRANGERS gave me money! Women I did NOT know! In what other company would people not only offer their condolences, maybe a card, if they were really stretching, maybe some flowers, but their own MONEY? Flowers are nice, but they don’t pay for funerals or other expenses when you haven’t been able to work for 3 months due to being on bed rest.
I know there are a lot of “Mary Kay Stalkers” out there (as my director likes to call them). These are women, consultants AND directors, who are pushy, agressive, not completely honest, selfish, I could go on and on. But guess what! You’re going to find that in any organization. People looking out for themselves, not the needs of others. Not everyone is going to live the principals and ideals of this company. Unfortunately, some people DO get lied to. And the women who do the lying are a disgrace to this amazing company and what it represents. But I’m a firm believer in what comes around, goes around. Women who don’t work this business the right way never get far and often times, lose everything. Unfortunately, not everyone gets honestly and great training like I’ve had the privelige of having. And I’m going to perpetuate the honesty, integrity, and incredible training I’ve received.
As far as the company bringing in new products every 3 months, we are in the BEAUTY INDUSTRY. This is an industry that is constantly changing. Look in the clothing stores! It’s barely August and they are already selling FALL fashions! Same with MK. And whoever mentioned MK keeps it a “SECRET” when they are going to discontinue a product so the consultants will keep buying so they can get rid of it, GIVE ME A BREAK! Do you know how many customers love so many products we discontinue and search high and low to find them? We as consutlants network to help each other out. My customer wants XXX, so I’ll give you YYY, and we trade. We both win! You were able to get rid of a discontinued product and I was able to make my customer happy. Have a sale! Show me a store that doesn’t discount merchandise they are trying to get rid of because a newer, better, or just different product came out.
I’ve heard a lot of great comments on this board, I’ve read a lot of lies, and I’ve also seen a lot of wah wah wah, poor me going on. Paging Pity Party, table for one. No one likes a whiner. Take the lesson and leave the experience. Take responsibility for your own actions (or lack of actions). We are all adults (that’s why you have to be over 18 to join). If you have questions, ask! If you feel you are being pressured, SAY SOMETHING! Stop being a weiny and stand up for yourself! If you go into bankruptcy or debt, you have no one to blame but yourself. I’ve never heard of a director or recruiter putting a gun to someone’s head and making them order, or do anything else for that matter.
There’s my 2 cents. I love MK, and I tell every customer at her first facial with me, “I’m a lifer. I’ll be in MK til one of us dies. You can count on me to be here for you rain or shine. I will never pressure you into purchsing something, and you can always return any product you are not happy with for a full refund or exchange.”
Lets paint the world PINK! Your life is what YOU make it! Be pro-active, not re-active.
Wow. LOL It seems that many of you bashers are totally clueless about how a business operates. You are also double minded. On one hand you complain about “pink” sororities and on the other you say no one cares and it is all about money. Well, most businesses are all about money! DUH! This is America! Capitalism! Free Enterprise! Entreprenuers! If you abhor those things perhaps you should relocate to Cuba or China.
The products change regularly becuase we are in an industry that changes regularly. It is about trends and consumer demand. Do you write the same diatribes about Clinique etc when they update their product lines?? Do you accuse them of ripping people off??
As far as how MK the company treats people, I have always been treated fairly. I do not have unrealistic expectations of a CORPORATION. Nor do I have unrealistic pie in the sky expectations of my NSD.
As a Senior Director with 2 Offspring, I have seen many women come and go and frankly the ones that are gone are not missed. Does that make me bad? Have you ever disliked a co worker at Walmart? Or wherever you work.
And yes I am where I am because of MY efforts and the TEAM EFFORT. I didn’t use anyone ever. But people have used me, blamed me etc for their lack of work ethic and poor money management. Constulants have stood me up, LIED to me, hit on my husband, stolen product from me (borrowed but never returned). Consultants have wasted my time again and again. I do my JOB of teaching proper money management butI can’t hold the hand and balance the ledger sheets of all my consultants. Every individual is 100% soley responsible for their own money. I do not tell people to order product they haven’t sold- with the exception of INITIAL INVENTORY INVESTMENT and INVESTMENT in NEW PRODUCTS. If they want the Coach handbag on the star prize sheet then I suggest to them they should go to the mall and buy one for $300 instead of jacking up their credit card.
Quit putting blanket accusations at the whole company and whole sales force, it makes you look petty and immature.
HUM…I just left a Rena seminar. Just picked up my Mary Kay bus. again after three years, because I still had 6 active recruits, and STILL made comission on them. After working a public job, for half of what I was worth, I decided that perhaps I should give my MK bus. another go. I never quit, obviously, I still have some team members left. Simply, I concluded that, good, bad and indifferent, this is the best opportunity around. What I do with it is up to me. We are the ONLY direct sales co. that pay 50% commission. Also, the ONLY company that allows you to “keep” your recruits no matter what. Tupperware has them fall off after one year–no more commission. Avon only lets you keep them if you order a minimum amount every two weeks. Speaking of AVON, I interview for a DSM position with them–a salary plus bonus job. After 5 interviews, multiple tests, etc. I was told I would be hired. They simply had to wait for the position to be available due to a transfer. Well, the transfer happened to the person that was going to hire me instead. Guess what? I didn’t get the job I was promised. That was my lightbulb moment. In MK, If I do the work, I get the position. Period. Before my son was born, I sold Real Estate. I was an “independant contractor”, as are all real estate agents. I had a complicated pregnancy, but still worked and produced. My son was born 7 weeks prematurely, so I couldn’t work for several months. My broker told me that he “filled my spot”. I know that could not happen in MK. Just as the Avon situation would not happen. I also listened to Rena tell how she was diagnosed with Cancer soon after becoming a Director. She still reached the top. Later, more cancer, treatments, then her son had cancer. She still reached the top. We can all either make excuses, or make things happen. The reason I slowed down in MK for 3 years was that I allowed someone to hurt my feelings. Well, she is responsible for her actions, but I am responsible for my re-action. I am accountable to God for using everything he gave me to the best of my ability. No one ever said there would not be difficulties. As bad as some MK people behave, it still isn’t as bad as my real estate cronies. I am just determined not to be that way. I could have sued my broker, Avon, and everyone else that hurt my feelings, ticked me off, etc. Or, I can work hard at making it different for the next one.
to anyone thinking about joining MK – I worked for an executive director for about 1 year. After which, I was very disillusioned about MK. I found out that the sales director that I admired so much was very greedy and all she cared about was how much money she could make off the consultants. She would make money off them in so many different ways – selling them all kinds of supplies and info pamphlets at not so cheap prices. She always hyped up the crowds at every meeting and then at the end sold them a bunch of stuff. All the while – she bought very expensive clothes and shoes for herself and was constantly remodeling her house. At one point, she told me that out of about 4500 people she’s recruited during her career, only 9 of those became a director and I know of one of them who just quit. Think about what that means in the statistics – 9 divided by 4500 = 2/10ths of 1 percent!!! My goodness! If someone had given me those statistics when I started, I would not have invested $3600 in cosmetics that I had to end up selling on eBay for about 1/4 of what I paid for them. And you’ll see, if you look on eBay, that there are over 22,000 mary kay auctions – that is from all the consultants who are trying to recover their losses. They were all talked into investing thousands of dollars on cosmetics because their directors told them they could make hundreds of dollars a week, easy (piece of cake, they said). That’s what happened to me, anyway – I felt conned. So, if you haven’t invested your money yet, please don’t. You’ll be sorry.
lipstickchick, what are you talking about?? MK does not pay commission after you reach “inactive” status, or 3 months after your last $200 wholesale order. And it’s not the only direct sales company to “pay” 50% commission. Mary Kay is not the benevolent entity that’s doing “so much better” than everyone else. It’s an opportunity. It works for some, but not everyone. Please don’t tear down those who choose not to do this business.
Anyone thinking of signing on with MK or who has recently signed on but not placed their first order…Hope you have a mind of your own. Mary Kay’s motto of “can’t sell from an empty cart” and “women are impulse buyers who don’t want to wait for their product” are lines of crap. Do the business your way at your speed. See if you can round up orders prior to purchasing your initial package and go from there. Don’t be brain-washed; don’t go for the hoop-la of prizes (which most that your director will give in the beginnig are cheap and can be purchased anywhere). Also, be aware that many of the tips they give you regarding warm chatter (in stores, malls, etc.) are in direct violation of the no soliciting warnings posted all over stores! Cold phones calls are another type of harrassment; falling into the category of telemarketing. If you can “step out of your comfort zone” and talk to everyone within 3 feet of you about the MK “opportunity”, be prepared for recoils, sneers and general looks of contempt. Other than that, sounds like a lot of fun, huh?
I think all of us consultants, former and active have already been fed that line. For anyone who does not recognize the jargon of a Mary Kay consultant here is a breakdown. “Think outside the box” means let your director think for you and tell you what to do. “Warm chatter” which means talk to strangers and get them to listen to your line. Get referrals means have your friends give you names and numbers of more people you can harass. Book and hold skin care classes means talk a reluctant person into having one and then call them everyday up till the party to make sure they are still having it. Get a phone number from each guest so that they too can “hold a class” and get a phone call daily from you. “Do not be pushy” in Mary Kay terms just means do not resort to violence to get your bookings and try not to call after midnight. “Be discreet ” in Mary Kay jargon means use Star 67 on the phone so that your number comes up unavailable. “Reach for the Stars” means reach for your credit card. “You are not required to purchase inventory” is only the beginning of the sentence. Once you sign your agreement the rest of the sentence goes “but if you want to succeed you will. You wouldn’t open a store without inventory” “Attend your units meetings” means pay $4 to sit at someones house after an already long day for 2 plus hours in a skirt or dress. If you haven’t purchased anything for the week, you will not be getting a cute little 99 cent charm. If you spent at least $200 though you will get an awesome ribbon. “Think and act positive” means pretend you are always happy. When someone asks how business is say “GREAT” even if as you say it you are on your way to see your lawyer about filing for bankruptcy. When you reach someone on the phone, before they hang up on you tell them “I am s***o excited about this new product from Mary Kay. Is there any reason I couldn’t come over and show you and 3 or more friends the new product?” “Go to Seminar” means use your vacation time from your normal job for an out of town Mary Kay pep rally. Prepare to pay for your trip. You will get to share a room with 3 other consultants!” “Time is money” means do not waste time hanging out with non Mary Kay friends. They will only hold you back from being a Mega Star. “Mega Star” is someone who spends “mega bucks” on cosmetics that they will not sell or not use. Please, I am so excited to be out of Mary Kay and excited that I was able to unload it on ebay and pay off the debt from it. I am so excited not to have to call and bother people I don’t even know. I am also excited that I have all these little pink MK signature bags, they are great for picking up after your dog on a walk. The “deposits” on the bag will remind you just what MK is full of.
Linda Allen – You said it all!! I agree with you SOOOOOO wholeheartledly!!! I am also so excited not to be in MK – it is pure torture! That’s the biggest bunch of phonies and liars I’ve ever seen!!!
Here’s an interesting site to check thepinkingshears.org
To Linda Allen
Your comments are ridiculous and exaggerated. Let’s address a few of these, shall we?
Warm-chattering…it’s a choice. Not every consultant has to wc in order to be successful. It’s called people skills. If you want to do it, go for it. If not, don’t do it.
Referrals…show me a direct selling company that doesn’t work off referrals. Ever heard of Creative Memories? Pampered Chef? Tupper Ware? I’ve never been to one of these parties where the consultant didn’t ask for referrals. Stop acting like MK is the only company working of referrals. How about real estate? Dr’s offices? Hair stylists? Cleaning services? Mechanics? How naive are you?
Booking and holding scc…you cannot talk anyone into doing anything they don’t want to do. If she doesn’t want to hold a class, no amount of “harassing” will get them to do it.
Reach for the Stars…does not mean reach for your credit card. If you did, that was YOUR choice.
“You are not required to purchase inventory is only the beginning of the sentence”…let’s think about this, would you open a McDonald’s but not have hamburgers for people to buy? Or how about a clothing store with no clothes on the racks? Make-up is an impulse and emotional buy, just like eating and buying clothes. If you don’t have it, they’ll get it elsewhere. It’s not a line, it’s fact.
I’m not even going to bother going on to any other of your silly comments. You obviously have no idea about time management, money management, or running a business. If your filing bankruptcy, you have money problems bigger than MK. And if you’re filing bankruptcy, whose fault is that? Sounds like poor money choices to me. Again, how does that have anything to do with MK? That’s why people like you will always be disciplined by a boss in corporate America. You don’t have the ability to govern yourself and your life choices. And when you “try” (and I use the word try liberally) and don’t succeed, you blame everyone but the one person who truly is responsible. YOU!!!! Get a grip!
There are tens of thousands of women all around the world successful in this company. I think that’s proof enough. Apparently, you think everything should be handed to you on a silver platter. I dare you to start a business, ANY business, and see how much money you spend, see how many long hours you work away from your family trying to make a go of it. The cost to start an MK business is pennies considered to starting any other venture on your own. The franchise fee to start a FruitFlower business is almost $200,000!!!! That doesn’t include labor, a building/rent, utilities, supplies, insurance, etc, etc, etc. If you think $3600 will bankrupt you, again I say, your money problems are bigger than MK and were there long before MK ever came into the picture.
Stop being such a cry-baby about your decision to NOT be successful and leave the people who ARE choosing to be successful alone. How pathetic. Get over it already. How many years are you going to be complaining about your experience? What a waste.
To Linda Allen
Your comments are ridiculous and exaggerated. Let’s address a few of these, shall we?
Warm-chattering…it’s a choice. Not every consultant has to wc in order to be successful. It’s called people skills. If you want to do it, go for it. If not, don’t do it.
Referrals…show me a direct selling company that doesn’t work off referrals. Ever heard of Creative Memories? Pampered Chef? Tupper Ware? I’ve never been to one of these parties where the consultant didn’t ask for referrals. Stop acting like MK is the only company working of referrals. How about real estate? Dr’s offices? Hair stylists? Cleaning services? Mechanics? How naive are you?
Booking and holding scc…you cannot talk anyone into doing anything they don’t want to do. If she doesn’t want to hold a class, no amount of “harassing” will get them to do it.
Reach for the Stars…does not mean reach for your credit card. If you did, that was YOUR choice.
“You are not required to purchase inventory is only the beginning of the sentence”…let’s think about this, would you open a McDonald’s but not have hamburgers for people to buy? Or how about a clothing store with no clothes on the racks? Make-up is an impulse and emotional buy, just like eating and buying clothes. If you don’t have it, they’ll get it elsewhere. It’s not a line, it’s fact.
I’m not even going to bother going on to any other of your silly comments. You obviously have no idea about time management, money management, or running a business. If your filing bankruptcy, you have money problems bigger than MK. And if you’re filing bankruptcy, whose fault is that? Sounds like poor money choices to me. Again, how does that have anything to do with MK? That’s why people like you will always be disciplined by a boss in corporate America. You don’t have the ability to govern yourself and your life choices. And when you “try” (and I use the word try liberally) and don’t succeed, you blame everyone but the one person who truly is responsible. YOU!!!! Get a grip!
There are tens of thousands of women all around the world successful in this company. I think that’s proof enough. Apparently, you think everything should be handed to you on a silver platter. I dare you to start a business, ANY business, and see how much money you spend, see how many long hours you work away from your family trying to make a go of it. The cost to start an MK business is pennies considered to starting any other venture on your own. The franchise fee to start a FruitFlower business is almost $200,000!!!! That doesn’t include labor, a building/rent, utilities, supplies, insurance, etc, etc, etc. If you think $3600 will bankrupt you, again I say, your money problems are bigger than MK and were there long before MK ever came into the picture.
Stop being such a cry-baby about your decision to NOT be successful and leave the people who ARE choosing to be successful alone. How pathetic. Get over it already. How many years are you going to be complaining about your experience? What a waste.
Living Pink and Loving it: YOu’re being just as big of a biotch as you’re accusing others of being.
Fight facts with facts, and maybe people will listen.
Got any facts? Besides the one that only 2% of consultants reach NSD, and they only do so by recruiting hundreds of women that _preserve_ that pyramid structure. Did I just say pyramid??
To Foo Says
Maybe you need some facts. You can’t get to NSD by just recruiting people. Apparently, you don’t know what the qualifications are. There are over 2200 consultants in my area. Did my NSD recruit them all? No.
Pyramid? Look at the structure in any business. How many presidents and CEO’s are there in your company?
And nice language. Guess we all know you’re not a lady. I’ve refrained from calling anyone any names because #1 it’s uncalled for and immature, and #2 it only demeans you.
Get your facts straight.
Everyone has their own opinion about Mary Kay. The type of person you are is what allows everyone to have different opinions about different things. If i dont like tomatoes, that doesnt mean that they werent meant to be eaten. What a person has been through in life helps them make their decisions. No, Mary kay wont work for everyone because not everyone wants to work and you have to work to make it. Yes, some people will survive off of it because they work the numbers and meet enough women who love the product or who want to sell the product. No, mary kay isnt the only direct selling company that gives you 50% profit, nor is it the only one that gives you a career car to drive when you earn it. I have been in Mary Kay for 2 years. I have seen people fail in Mary Kay and i have seen people succeed. Whats the big deal? That happens in everything. Just because a person doesnt like something or isnt good at it, doesnt make it wrong for another person to do it. I had a friend who was a single mom of two and i am also a single mom of two. The company has helped me tremendously. I have quit my full time job and i am making more money than i was before. i also drive a free car. My friend has also profited alot off of mary kay. Her JOB check is only $200 for a month after her husband takes out child support. Because of mary kay she now makes about 400-600 dollars a week and she now has custody of her kids. it allowed her to purchase a home, drive fee…and have more self esteem. No, you might not like mary kay, you dont have to, but why fight about it when a person will do what they please?
Living pink: yes, you can get to NSD solely by recruiting. In fact, look at your Advance brochure. There is NO sales quota for the person submitting for NSD. In fact, there are limits to how much the NSD can sell on her own.
And I don’t care if the NSD-wannabe is doing the recruiting or her recruits. She recruited those recruits. Which makes it a pyramid.
Oh, and btw, why do you always bash J.O.B.’s and corporate America, if you’re a pyramid just like them? Good ol’ corporate can’t be so evil if you’re just like them.
Christina: You make a much more polite argument, although you’re still falling for the “free” part of that car… what irks so many people is when a consultant chooses to no longer build her busines, she’s called a “quitter.” And if you look around, the majority of people defending the business are downright belidgerent.
They act as if this is the *only* way to make money, and if you’re making money any other way, you are evil because you’re neglecting your kids. Guess what? They all also say they have to work hard. That means being away from your kids. So, tell me this? Why am I so evil for working 20 hours a week and making more than the average Future Executive Senior Sales Director?
That is why people get so disgusted with Mary Kay. They’re claiming they’re something they’re not. And they’re claiming that they *aren’t* something they *are.* If I have to endure, “We’re not MLM, we’re dual-marketing,” it _will_ make me puke. And I really don’t like to puke.
To Foo
Read your advance brochure again. There is a sales quota attached to EACH of the 18 units over the 4 month qualification period. AND each unit must have at least 30 ACTIVE unit members at the end of the qualifications. Pay attention.
MK is not a pyramid in the way you’re meaning it. In corp america, I have to answer to a boss. I have a set schedule I have to follow, I have so many vacation and sick days I’m allowed each year, I can’t promote myself, I can’t give myself a raise no matter how hard I work. Tell me, what are the benefits of that? In MK, I’m my own boss, I decide. So no. MK is not “just like them”.
And to your comments to Christina, the people “defending” the business are no more belligerent (use spell check next time) than the people who are attacking it.
I’ve never, ever in 6 years heard any say you’re “evil” for working a regular job and being away from your kids. I think a lot of what your saying is what you’ve perceived in your own mind. Maybe you had your own feelings of guilt from being away from your family.
I’ve had people join my team, and become terminated. I don’t say they quit because you actually have to be doing something in order to quit doing it. I’ve also had friends in MK decide not to be part of this anymore. No one said they were quitters. They just decided to change careers. If they quit because someone cancelled or stood them up, or they got their feelings hurt, or whatever, then they are quitting. There’s a big difference between saying I’d like to pursue something different (like my good friend who is now an aerobics instructor and my friend who decided to go into nursing) and deciding you aren’t willing to work.
I agree with Christina. MK boils down to people. We are all different. Some like MK, some don’t. Some want a 9 to 5 job and a boss, some don’t. Some people have great recruiters/directors and nationals, some don’t. Because everyone is different, there will always be someone who misunderstood, or maybe they were lied to or misled, or maybe they thought this was a get rich quick scheme. For whatever reasons, this business will always have people who love it and hate. And that’s about all.
The *units* have sales quota, not the NSD candidate. Oh, yes, you can become an NSD without selling a thing. But you can’t ever get there without recruiting.
Oh, and I stop reading when you have nothing better to do than pick on my spelling. I didn’t pick on yours.
You have to realize that you are not the only face of MK. We are not personally accusing *you* of lying and deception. We are alerting others that people in MK *do* this stuff. Just because you don’t doesn’t wipe the slate clean. Only Jesus can do that.
“I think a lot of what your saying is what you’ve perceived in your own mind. Maybe you had your own feelings of guilt from being away from your family.”
Nice. I like this one the best. No, you don’t understand. I’ve had directors *tell* me. I’ve not imagined it. And you can’t discount someone’s argument by simply dismissing it as “insanity.”
To Foo
“You have to realize that you are not the only face of MK. We are not personally accusing *you* of lying and deception. We are alerting others that people in MK *do* this stuff. Just because you don’t doesn’t wipe the slate clean. Only Jesus can do that.”
Okay, so do you run around and point say to people, “Don’t get married! I know someone who got divorced!” Or “Don’t go to college! I know people who flunked out!” Or “don’t buy a house! I know someone who got treated real bad by their agent!” Get real. That’s a ridiculous argument trying to say that you’re just trying to “alert others”. People lie in every organization. Remember Enron? How about our very own beloved government? I’m not saying MK is perfect, it never will be, because people are flawed, and sometime’s self-serving. But if we live our lives based off someone else’s bad experience, we’d never do anything because someone always knows someone who something bad happened, and on and on and on it would go.
Bottom line, live your own life. Stop trying to paint the negative picture you had to everyone else and let it go. You don’t know they wouldn’t have a good experience? So why would you try to stop them? How selfish is that?
To Foo
And if you want to bring Jesus into this, everything you’re saying can be used in that regard, too. You’re telling me I’m not the only face of MK (I know that, I didn’t need you to point it out). Well, shouldn’t you be out there stopping people from going to church? After all, aren’t there thousands who have been hurt, lied to, deceived, taken advantage of, ordered to tithe, all in the name of God? Go, hurry! Tell people not to go to church! Or are you going to tell me those people are not the only face of God? Same difference.
You can’t say MK is bad for the same reasons you can’t say church and God are bad. Everyone has their own experiences. That argument can be applied to so many things in life. “Don’t eat at that restaurant! I got sick.” Maybe you did get sick, that doesn’t mean I’ll get sick.
My wife has been involved in MK for a little over a year now, I was supportive of her and attended a couple meetings and agreed with her on her initial inventory purchases. To be honest the meetings made me uncomfortable, I found them to be “pep ralleys” which in a way was good as they inspired these women, but I also found them to be pressuring as they stood me on stage and had me tell how I’m a wonderfull husband by babysitting and helping my wife handle the inventory. They applauded me and asked that I keep it up and do more. This was common among any husband that showed up, pressure him in front of his peers to support his wife and agree that Mary Kay was helping her.
We have 2 kids and I now stay home with them to avoid the cost of a hard to find babysitter.
I now wonder if avoiding these meetings mave been a mistake, my wife’s attitude has significantly changed especially toward work and marrage. To put it bluntly, she has quit her job and I’m ready to find a lawyer and begin discussing divorce.
I look back at what I saw at these meetings and can see how these women, many unhappy with their lives, are told they deserve better and Mary Kay is the way. My wife’s director has a new husband who comes across as overly loving and caring during these meetings. He is very intelligent and has become a big part of these events. These women look at the relationship these two have and are desperate for it. My wife and I had what I would call a good relationship. A couple months back she informed me thet she needs more accnowlagment; I never tell her she’s pretty enough or that I’m proud of her………..Any future attempt to do this was put down as sarcasm.
It seems as if she’s been coached on how she should be treated by her husband and how work is not for her. She now also has an arsonal of Mary Kay responses to defend her reasoning.
I still love my wife but I’m loosing her to Mary Kay. I am now in fear of our savings and available credit.
Hey Living pink!
You are being a the biggest pink BIOTCH I have ever met. I am really glad you have such a GO-GIVE spirit. You really make people want to run out and do Mary Kay..NOT!
Go to hell and take your pink crap with you. Go, hurry! Satan is waiting for you to make him over with your cheap, dimestore product.
It is because of pinkos like you, Mary Kay now has a stalker image. I hope that dead woman is flipping over in her grave.
Disgusted Husband:
My hear breaks for you!! I started down that same slippery slope with my own husband. Luckily, we got counseling, and our marriage is back on the right road. Nowhere near perfect, but what is? Part of that counseling I didn’t see coming: we wound up de-programming me from what I was taught about values and beliefs in Mary Kay. I’m now much more positive. (Yeah! Go figure! With all that ‘positivity’, I was down on myself to the point of depression.)
The thing that helped me the most (after the counseling) was joining the MKSurvivors group at Yahoo!. We have a few husbands there, and they’ve found it helpful, too.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/MKSurvivors/messages
Hoping you’ll heal fast…
And try http://www.thepinkingshears.org, too.
Wow. Living pink just went off the deep end. I don’t think I stated myself clearly enough. Should I now pick on the fact that she’s leaving out words? Oh, no, then she’d just remind me I once misspelled “belligerent.”
Why is it that we are making a big deal out of something so small? There are different types of people all over the place. Some will lie, some will cheat you out of things, some are honest and sincere. Obviously we all have had different experiences with the “Mary Kay People” in our lives. But whats the big deal? If someone wants to do something…let them at it. Sometimes the only way people learn is when they fall and have to pick themselves back up. Sometimes they’ll succeed and all you can do is give them praise. Slandering people doesnt make situations like this better either. In Mary Kay, some dont work enough, some work too hard and lose their friends and/or family, but you just have to even things out. It’s different for everyone. If Mary Kay is full of liars and dishonest people and isnt worth what anyone thinks it is…then why do you use your time talking about it? I mean, give your opinion and go…dont argue. It ruins your credibility. If you dont like it, fine. No one is saying your a bad person if you dont like mary kay or if you didnt succeed like some said you would. Yes there are EXAGERATORS in Mary Kay, i’ve been around those too, but some people really do like it, and some really are succeeding. Every unit in Mary Kay is different. The experiences one person has had might not be the same as another. Why cant we just accept what people want to do -Whether its be in Mary Kay or not?
The problem is that we can’t just “give our opinion and go.” We state our positions, and get attacked. No, we don’t need to retaliate, but, yes, we do need to let others know that a lot of Mary Kay people are seriously misrepresenting the actual possibility of being “successful” (i.e., making a lot of money) in Mary Kay is very slim.
In fact, it’s even worse than the 2% number stated earlier. That 2% number refers to *all* sales directors and nationals. Think about it. Out of one million consultants, only 450 are nationals. And only 20,000 are sales directors of some sort.
Now, some may say that only the best rise to the top. That may be true, but it doesn’t mean that those percentages are ever going to change. How many recruits does it take to get to NSD? That’s my point.
Now, if other people want to disagree, they will. And another argument will ensue because we don’t agree whether or not Mary Kay should be legitimately operating in its current form.
For anyone actually interested in the ultimate disposition of this case, check out this link…
http://www.courtstuff.com/cgi-bin/as_web.exe?c05_05.ask+D+800147
The case was reversed on appeal, upholding Mary Kay, Inc.’s contention that she was an independent contractor. I recommend you read the opinion issued by the Texas Court of Appeals–it is very interesting.
Dear MK Truth, I’m so sad to hear that your experience with Mary Kay was blighted by an unsavory practice of fleecing the consultants. There is one in our area that operates in that manner. One recruit of my close freind had a similar experience and we were so concerned about her getting caught up in spending on this director’s gimmicks etc.Then all at once she disappeared and we cannot reach her. If only she had askked the advice of our director or one of us we could have prevented this experience. We are disappointed too because we lost a freind. Marjorie Mar
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