TEXAS – A jury in Texas ordered Mary Kay Inc. to pay $11.2 million including $10 million in punitive damages, for firing a sales manager disabled by cancer, who, the company argued, was not an employee but an independent contractor.
“This verdict means the 920,000 alleged independent contractors working for Mary Kay have their civil rights,” said plaintiff’s counsel Angela Alioto. “If they get sick, they have a remedy. They can take a leave.”.
(via The National Law Journal)
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I just want to say that despite what has happened to some, I hope all can learn to appreciate the Honest people in the business. I am on my way to the top and the only way i got there is by working hard, and not giving in to gimmicks. I am doing what i think i should do and not what others tell me to do…its MY business afterall!! In mary kay…you dont have to do what your director says…you can choose to take her advie or not. I hope those of you who have had bad experiences with mary kay can learn to appreciate it for the honest ones that are in the business and for the people who are in the business…i hope you can feel sympathy for those who feel as if they’ve been cheated, because I know we’ve all been lied to atleast once.
My wife has been considering joining MK.
I was reading a lot of these posts, after my wife and I were talking to a couple of MK consultants. From what I gather, MK teaches putting God first, family second and MK third.
From what I have seen about what happened to this woman who was with MK for 20 years or so, it kind of made me wonder. I realize that MK has no obligation to helping this person, but does it not say in scripture? And now abideth faith, hope, and charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. I know people interpret charity as love, but could not a company that teaches about putting God first, not show any love at all toward a faithfull representative?
Could MK have done out of charity, what scipture teaches? This is quite confusing to me. Myself, someone who had worked for me after 20 years even though independant, who had some bad times, could I just completely turn my back to them? No, I am not made that way.
Since reading all of this with discussion my wife has decided against MK.
Joe….
I was looking for a legal story and somehow I ended up on this website.
I read very lightly a few of the top postings. Can’t believe it.
One way or the other. the legal system in this country is truly imposible. I work for a big corporation and if I were to get sick, I would be packed to go home and my Manager would probably visit once and then I may be mentioned over a coffee break. And I am a top performer.
Why are dual Marketing companies alwys treated so negatively. How many corporations do we have in this country? How many Presidents does each company have? How many Vice Presidents do they have? And then Directors? Do I need to keep going?
Every individual in Mary Kay, Stampin Up, Creative Memories, and others is given an agreement. Even if the person offering them the opportunity is not completely honest, the info is on the back of the agreement. And imagine that, go and research it yourself.
Also, Mary Kay is I understand correctly will buy inventory back.
A husband that is blaming somebody else for the marital situatioon is a husband that truly needs a reality check. An individual that believes something can be gotten for a little bit of work, is a dreamer. Don’t quote Bible just to be slick.
I never read anywhere that no hard work is required.
We all choose to hear certain things that are presented to us.
Get real.
Here we go again. Will you people please read the thread before dragging all of the “failed Mary Kay ladies” through the muck again??
Dont know what all that was about….but you ladies who “failed” in mary kay…can you honestly say that if your director would have given you more honest insight on the company and if you had a recruiter that cared about you instead of what they could have…you most likely would have succeeded right? Thats in everything you do. There will always be people in life who will con you into doing things because of the rewards they will get and then there are people who will give you an opportunity because they really care about you. I dont think Mary Kay should be bad mouthed because there are some honest people in Mary Kay. I dont think the women who “failed” should be bad mouthed either because maybe their “failure” wasnt there fault. If the right insight isnt given then the career wont be what it seems.
Christina Garcia wrote:
>if your director would have given you more honest insight on the company
Two questions:
Why does Mary Kay Corporate prohibit the distribution of the Director’s Agreement?
Why does Mary Kay Corporate prohibit the distribution of the National Director’s Agreement?
It could not possibly have anything to do with the fact that those documents clearly cripple your ability to effectively retail Mary Kay products.
Nor could it possibly have anything to do with teh fact that they both are one sided contracts, grossly tilted in favour of Mary Kay Corporate.
>If the right insight isnt given then the career wont be what it seems.
So why do mary Kay Recurits, directors, and nationals fail to tell new recruits the following:
i) You have a 0.025% chance of not losing money, if you sign up for this gamble.
ii) You have a 0.01% chance of showing a profit, if you sign up for this gamble.
Amber
Wind under thy Wings
They dont tell you that because it isnt true? Where did you get that information from? How could it be that me and my 13 recruits have ALL had parties, made money and didnt end up upside down or without anything? I mean, how could you possible NOT make money in mary kay. Seems to me the reason you failed isnt due to a directors misleading messages…its due to the #1 reason why many drop out of mary kay…POOR MONEY MANAGEMENT!!
Christina,
Take your pinko attitude and your unit and your inventory and shove it. It is pinko stalker psychos like you that give stupid Mary Kay a bad name. I hope that lady is rotting in her grave!
If you can’t turn a profit on a product prchased at 50% off retail then you aren’t meant for the business world.
Wow, marjorie, you’re really convincing everyone to run off and become a Mary Kay consultant!
Nice generalization and outright insult!
Clearly, *all* aspects of business relate to retail sales. Let’s not consider any other roles in business at ALL.
hey marjorie. do your research. 50% off retail isn’t a great deal. most wholesalers sell their product for that much or less to retailers. besides, 50% off retail isn’t much of a good deal considering you can get MK on ebay for 80-90% off retail.
Yikes! What a discussion. I was compelled to keep reading. I am not a MK girl but I have friends who are. I am a consultant for BeautiControl so I understand the Direct Sales Beauty Biz. My “pink” friends aren’t pushy and don’t con people but they also aren’t trying to get the Caddie either. I know that MK basically tells their recruits that they must buy the “big kit” and it’s understandable they know that if they have inventory they will work to sell it. In any business you get what you put into it. If anyone believes that you can earn a 6 figure income without putting in the time, money & effort, then I have a bridge to sell them. Direct sales can be very lucrative especially for those of us that need the time to take care of our families. I love what I do I prefer the red convertible Mustang (which is in our name & cannot be taken away) over the pink car. I am a supposed to be a competitor but I respect the fact that we all (meaning from bc, mk , and Avon to maxfactor to MAC) have a product to sell & we do our best. In any business you are going to have those who do not have the right ethics but people need to learn that if it sounds too good to be true… it normally is. I use the facts when I recruit I tell them our consultants make anything from 0$-$50,000 a month I tell them that the $50,000 a month is our top consultant who’s been in the business for over 2 decades. I show people my books. I don’t know what Mary Kay teaches thier Directors, I know that in the direct sales industry you need to know you are investing in a business & find out all the information before you sign the dotted line. People can’t walk on you if your not lying down!
Mary Kay is MLM. That means 99%+ lose money. The company only cares about selling inventory to the consultants. After that, they don’t give a rip…their sale is complete. When will you Kaybots realize that MLM is a system in which those at the top make money, and those below do not. It is nearly impossible to support oneself on MK alone. The only honesty needed from MK reps is this: We are MLM and you will almost certainly lose money. Period. Because of the system, and the system alone.
Yikes! What a discussion. I was compelled to keep reading. I am not a MK girl but I have friends who are. I am a consultant for BeautiControl so I understand the Direct Sales Beauty Biz. My “pink” friends aren’t pushy and don’t con people but they also aren’t trying to get the Caddie either. I know that MK basically tells their recruits that they must buy the “big kit” and it’s understandable they know that if they have inventory they will work to sell it. In any business you get what you put into it. If anyone believes that you can earn a 6 figure income without putting in the time, money & effort, then I have a bridge to sell them. Direct sales can be very lucrative especially for those of us that need the time to take care of our families. I love what I do I prefer the red convertible Mustang (which is in our name & cannot be taken away) over the pink car. I am a supposed to be a competitor but I respect the fact that we all (meaning from bc, mk , and Avon to maxfactor to MAC) have a product to sell & we do our best. In any business you are going to have those who do not have the right ethics but people need to learn that if it sounds too good to be true… it normally is. I use the facts when I recruit I tell them our consultants make anything from 0$-$50,000 a month I tell them that the $50,000 a month is our top consultant who’s been in the business for over 2 decades. I show people my books. I don’t know what Mary Kay teaches thier Directors, I know that in the direct sales industry you need to know you are investing in a business & find out all the information before you sign the dotted line. People can’t walk on you if your not lying down!
To give you all just a little piece of my mind…You guys that didnt make it in Mary Kay for some odd reason…sorry…but life goes on. Find something else your good at instead of wasting your time trying to belittle something just because you didnt succeed!! Get a life, or a job, or somet hing and make the best out of what you have. All you women out there that are in Mary Kay…GOod luck to you and keep your head up…dont let people bring your hopes down…jealousy is a very evil thing!!
99% of people in MLMs lose money. Yes, Mary Kay is MLM. Dual marketing is MLM. Why on earth would someone in an MLM try to sue, claiming she was an employee? She’s not, she’s a member of an MLM, nothing more.
Once all you MaryKayBots stop trying to tell people Mary Kay is not MLM, we’ll stop trying to tell them for you.
It’s the big lie, and we’re out to prove it. 1% of people make money in MLMs. Less than that make the “executive income” MKBots sell as the “dream.”
Maybe if people like you, Christina, stopped lying to so many people, we wouldn’t have to tell the truth for you. But wait. We at least _have_ the time on our hands to do this. If your recruiter, sales director, or national knew you were “wasting time” on non-income producing activities, she’d have something to say to you: Get out there and sell! sell! sell! or, more importantly: recruit! recruit! recruit!
After all, the _real_ money in any MLM is in the recruiting. Tell me it’s not the next time you wave a _commission_ check to prove something.
Who in the hell said anything about wanting to know your name? The sad thing is that you guys that didnt make it are in denial and pull all these so called facts out of your asses and expect people to believe them. Why dont you show me something real that says..”only 1% of women in mary kay make money?” and please…make sure it isnt by one of you pricks who are just upset because you didnt climb the ladder!! Everyone runs their business differently and not everyone runs it the way their director or nsd tells them to. It all boils down to the truth…To make money in mary kay you have to work…if you dont…then you wont succeed. Sorry you didnt make it.
My apologies. We’ve found so many facts that have lead to the statement, “99% of people in MLMs will lose money,” that we forget KayBots are not in the real world.
Compiled facts:
http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2004/08/scamology-101-introduction-to-pyramid.html
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/resources/tenlies.html
http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2005/08/kudos-to-brian-headd.html
http://www.algae-world.com/algae45.html
http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html
http://www.armydiller.com/financial-scam/links.htm
Shall I continue?
Both the IRS and the FTC compile data on the success/failure rates of MLMs, along with every other business. It’s well-documented that MLMs are money-losers.
Oh, and what facts have you provided that you’re _making_ money in MK?
“Hello, Kettle… my name is Pot.”
Hey Cristina!
I hope you die in a blazing car crash that happens to be a Mary Kay car. I would spit on your dead body. Roast marshmallows on your carcas.
Take your Mary Kay crap and shove it up YOUR ass.
-Brandy
Christina…show me your Schedule C on here that MK pays you executive level (meaning $50K or more) salary. Furthermore, we don’t have “pricks” or “losers”. Many of us are successful in various ventures of employment, life, and our well-being. Many of us WERE directors who saw the lies of front-loading and lying our way to the top. We decided, instead, to step away from something that morally does not agree with our core beliefs. Furthermore, it is interesting that such a “girlfriend friendly” club would be so vehemenently outraged at anyone who chooses to leave or step out of the Pink Fog. It would be appreciated, I’m sure, by Mary Kay Ash herself if you do not refer to our friends and supporters as “pricks.” We all know that a proper and polite Mary Kay Consultant upholds the God first (and I’m assuming that means not calling detractors “pricks” and “losers”), Family Second, and Career Third. Besides, shouldn’t you be working your business and scheduling some classes versus harrassing the non-MK ladies and gents?
Hmmm..maybe Christina decided the water was just too hot for her big mouth and ran to hide in the bushes. She needs to stay her yellow, lying ass in the shadows. I would bet money she is knee deep in debt with her credit card. Poor rotting Mary Kay Ash, her body dead and ROTTEN. And Christina needs to join her.
Hey Christina…you must really be “working your business” if you have all this time to post snide comments here!!! Don’t forget, MK works when you do!!! Oh wait. That’s not true. It’s MLM. So really it’s just MK corporate gets rich when you spend money on inventory!
Hi Christina!
Would love to purchase some stuff from you…what is your shopping website?
Christina’s web site is here:
http://www.marykay.com/cgarcia123
She’s kind enough to list her phone number, in case you want to call her.
You can also email her at
cgarcia123@marykay.com
Or, is she making _so_ much money that she no longer has time to respond?
Pipe dream. She’s just mad.
Maybe it *is* a pyramid after all…
Quoted from Debra A. Valentine, General Counsel for the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/dvimf16.htm
“Pyramid schemes now come in so many forms that they may be difficult to recognize immediately. However, they all share one overriding characteristic. They promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program, not based on profits from any real investment or real sale of goods to the public. Some schemes may purport to sell a product, but they often simply use the product to hide their pyramid structure. There are two tell-tale signs that a product is simply being used to disguise a pyramid scheme: inventory loading and a lack of retail sales. Inventory loading occurs when a company’s incentive program forces recruits to buy more products than they could ever sell, often at inflated prices. If this occurs throughout the company’s distribution system, the people at the top of the pyramid reap substantial profits, even though little or no product moves to market. The people at the bottom make excessive payments for inventory that simply accumulates in their basements. A lack of retail sales is also a red flag that a pyramid exists. Many pyramid schemes will claim that their product is selling like hot cakes. However, on closer examination, the sales occur only between people inside the pyramid structure or to new recruits joining the structure, not to consumers out in the general public.”
How many people here have talked about “building teams” to “drive free cars”? Mary Kay people have all made a point to say that the _real_ money is made in “team building,” which is just jargon/secret code for RECRUITING. (See posts previously on qualifying for NSD… it’s all recruiting.) The product hides the recruiting.
And, based on how much product is on eBay and gets returned every year, a good case can be made that the product sale is made to the consultant, but less than 70% is sold to third-party customers.
Christina just thinks that most of you gals are pretty pathetic!! Check into this site EVERYDAY to find out who is succeeding so you can try and burst their bubble. For the most part…some of you are fairly psycho and probably need counciling for your failures in life. Sad to say…but the world could be alot better without most of your input. Fair to state your opinion, but to bagger others? I mean, does it really make you feel that much better? If it does than hear this….You cant ruin a day or even a second of my life…you cant burst my bubble just because you didnt succeed. I mean, what am i supposed to do? Quit marykay because you failed? most of you guys are pretty danm sad.
Oh, so now it’s the royal “we.” “Christina thinks”?? Hm. I think someone’s had too much pink in the milk.
No one even bites on the FTC definition???
Yeah, didn’t you know this is a great conspiracy?? We’re all sitting here, every day, day after day, tormenting one poor consultant.
I’ve only been here once, but this is too good to pass up!
As a newbie to this board (oh, wait, it’s just one article!), it seems that there are many more that have been “stung by the bee” than actually make money. Let’s see… at least five identifiable personalities in the past few days vs. hm… Christina.
Yup, I’m convinced. No way am I signing that agreement! So sad for that recruiter!
Christina, please take your meds before you respond again.
All I can say is at least most of the pro MK are respectable which is more then the con MK like Sick of the lying pinkos, “I hope you die in a blazing car crash ” and all the others with crude and vulgar language. I think all of them have proved their point . . . . We don’t want to be like them . . . so why listen to them!
Oh, and Christina is just one whacked out person, operating in a vacuum? I don’t believe that for a second! Just read back through this entire thread. Any time a KayBot is confronted with the truth of the Mary Kay organization, you may not get vulgar words (and sometimes you do!), but the sentiment is the same.
I love how people play indignant just because a swear word is used in place of something more “socially acceptable.”
Calling people “failures” and telling them they “didn’t work hard enough” is just like calling them a “loser” or worse.
Get off your high horse, look at the math, look at the devastated families left behind by this organization, and get real! This company is a company, just like any others, except that they exploit women who need “something more” (sound familiar?? all the recruiting material…). They exploit them to the point where they are thousands of dollars in debt, and some National Sales Director is on a cruise, berating her from the ship, calling on her cell phone, because she’s not working hard enough. What’s that National doing? Cruising on the backs of thousands of other women.
Yeah, I’ll go back to my evil J.O.B., thank you. At least there I can take a sick day when I need it, actually _be_ there at my kids’ activities. Oh, and I won’t be too busy “warm chatting” all the moms there, and miss that great performance by my child.
Keep it up, ladies! The bottom’s falling out soon.
Insult: ” marjorie mar says:
If you can’t turn a profit on a product prchased at 50% off retail then you aren’t meant for the business world.
Posted by: marjorie mar on September 06, 2005 ”
Oh, and how are we supposed to take that? It’s just as biting as “die in a fiery car crash.” Just hidden behind a bunch of guilt and deception.
“Living Pink,” “Marjorie Marr” and “Christina Garcia” are the only MK voices here in the past few months. Three people out of 1.3 million consultants. Only three MK consultants “see the dream” of Mary Kay, versus at least 20 women and a few men that have been burned.
Not a scientific study, but that’s a pretty bad ratio!
All I can say is at least most of the pro MK are respectable which is more then the con MK like Sick of the lying pinkos, “I hope you die in a blazing car crash ” and all the others with crude and vulgar language. I think all of them have proved their point . . . . We don’t want to be like them . . . so why listen to them!
Think Pink, do you realize that every time you refresh the page (to see if anyone has responded to your latest thrashing), you leave a tell-tale sign? Your comment posts again. Please stop doing that, it just looks like you’re starved for attention.
(Can’t find anything else to criticize?)
I wonder if “Sick of the Lying Pinkos” actually _was_ a Mary Kay consultant, or was smart enough to see the light before getting sucked in.
Too bad the sales director in this case didn’t have access to this information before getting involved with Mary Kay.
I think ‘Sick of the Lying Pinkos’ was probably burned pretty badly by Mk.
This thread fascinates me at the extreme emotion from each side.
It makes me sad that a company as large as this one that claims to “enrich the lives of others” does NOT enrich but use up and spit out people. If this truly was Mary Kay Ash’s dream for the world..It is pretty sick and sad. To use women and destroy lives is sad. Emotional abuse is just as bad as physical abuse.
I say, Christina needs to know that just because she is successful at using other women to get to where she wants to go in MK, there are others who will resent her for that and will be just as ugly back to her as she has been to them.
I think we all need to step back and look at the MK company without rose colored glasses and if this company is lying and using people, it needs to come OUT INTO THE LIGHT for others to see and know and beware of.
My thoughts.
-Lyndy
Not Pink, Thank you for your kind way of informing me . . . but my computer automatically refreshes every thirty minutes! I’m sorry for everyone’s failures. I think the reason why there are so few MK supporters… Look at how long this has been going on, we don’t need this to feel good about ourselves. I found this b/c a friend told me to look how crazy this was and once I saw people bashing my fellow MK sisters I couldn’t have it . . .that’s the only reason I posted my message I don’t feel like I need to validate MK just to support women like Living Pink. That is why this is my last post, I have God, my family and a unit which is #9 in the nation (I’m watching our first TV AD right now I’m so excited!!!). . . we encourage our woman not to get into debt, and for many MK has saved their family’s, and houses. I only know success (all of the women in my family are SUCSESSFUL Director’s and future directors) and that’s all I will accept. Maybe that’s why our unit is different. So, for everyone who feels as if they need to hash this out go right ahead but please stop talking trash about the GREATEST GIRLS in the WORLD (at least most of them are)!!!
Loving God, Loving Life and the greatest job in the world,
Think Pink
Think Pink..you CLAIM your unit is #9 in the nation. How many women have you used to get there? How many women have you talked to the way you have talked to us here? I would think TWICE about having anything to do with you and your nasty attitude and your nasty mouth. SUCCESSFUL people don’t trash others the way you have done here. SUCCESSFUL (notice the spelling) people KNOW they don’t NEED to trash others. SUCCESSFUL people don’t USE other people to get to their goals.
I have a real J.O.B. and I make 10 times what you make. Guaranteed. And I will put my 1040 up against your Schedule C to prove it. Bring it on, girlfriend. I AM more successful than you can ever hope to be.
-Lyndy
Hey Think Pink…the rest of us one here are
ooopps…
Hey Think Pink…the rest of us on here are WOMEN. Too bad your “girls” can’t keep up. #9 unit in the nation??? Well I guess if you were REALLY successful, you’d be NSD and not just a lowly director! WORK HARDER!!!
Sweetie,
I make 10 times what you make, I work 4 hrs. a day. I have no children as I was beaten to an inch of my life by a man I trusted. I am not able to have children. But I have enough money to retire on WITHOUT using others to do it. I don’t stalk people at Target and I don’t lie to women about a fake opportunity.
I am glad you are living pink. I feel bad for your unit members, though. Someone who is ignorant and rude and nasty is not a good leader. Maybe you should do MK cause you wouldn’t make it anywhere else.
-Lyndy
To “Don’t care what you think” I think you and your “girls” suck monkey balls.
-Brandy
Brandy…you’re just pathetic girl! I’ll pray for you tonight. I feel really bad for people like you. Just look at the things you write….shows what kind of person you are. Everyone who says somehting bad about MK is just MAD and JEALOUS that they arent making what we are. And you, working 4 hours a day…if thats what you’re good at fine…but dont bash what im good at. Take care everyone….SEE YOU AT THE TOP MARY KAY GALS!!
Think Pink: Your computer refreshes every 30 minutes?? You need to stop using that thing, it has a mind of it’s own. By the way, “refreshing” doesn’t include hitting the Reload button. I don’t buy one character of that excuse.
Better than Brandy: At the top of what? It’s all greed. Mary Kay builds dreams founded by greed. There is no peace in a pink world where all you want is more.
UUUMMMM since when does being successful mean “I make more money then you do”???? I thought success was your relationship with God, the relationships in life, your love for your husband, happy healthy kids, enjoying your job, and a love for life in general. It sounds to me like these MK woman on here (living pink, think pink, etc) don’t have MONEY at the forefront of their businesses, like all the rest or you do. Yes I know that a lot of people in Mary Kay don’t put people first, and that’s why ya’ll are so mad. You had bad directors, there are bad managers in every business in America not just Mary Kay. But from what it sounds like these girls are doing nothing wrong and they are defiantly not mean like most of the non Mary Kay People. And you know what? I’m sure God will bless them for that, they WILL be NSD’s while WE are still sitting here arguing about nothing. Well I’m not going to just sit around I’m going to join. This post has made up my mind. And I would rather be like them then be like ya’ll. Maybe I’ll join on of these girls’ teams. (I’ll let you know what they are like!) Think Pink here I come!!! So, go ahead and make nasty comments about me (you’ll only prove my point) but I’ve got a new business to run so I’m leaving here and never looking back!
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